The Politics of Politics: The Ride of a Lifetime

[Mr. Average]

Sam, there is no chance for a republican to win the general election. Whoever wins the democratic nomination will win the Presidency. Book it. I hope it's Hillary. Like her or not, she is more qualified than Obama, and wants it more than Edwards. As I've said before it would be nice to get Bill back in the White House. Greatest president since Reagan. She may have lined up enough other primary states to make Iowa ultimately irrelevant, but my fear is that the touchy-feely aspect of an Obama Presidency (African American President who does not threaten white America, and is "articulate" and Ophrah-friendly), combined with the visceral Hillary-hatred may in the end screw her (pun intended). I still think she should take it, but not so sure anymore. Can anyone recall a more un-electable pack of Republican candidates? Mitt? A Pentecostal minister is more electable. Rudy? the nation is not yer ready for a philandering NYC ethnic NYC mayor as President, no matter how effective a mayor he was. Fred Thompson? Like Reagan, an actorl, but unlike Reagan (read his diaries) he's downright stupid. Huckabee? No freaking way. Which leaves McCain, the only serious candidate, and I suspect there's a lot of Deer Hunter Chris Walken hidden away in that dude. A democractic presidency awaits us, Mr. A. As Elvis would say, "It's Time, it's Time...."

As much as I respect your views and thoughts, I think that this message may come back to haunt you, Alexv. You make an assertion about the 'philandering" nature of Rudy...in the same paragraph where you hail Slick Willy who was a compulsive liar, rapist, and used the oval office as his personal "servicing" center.

Hillary is not trustworthy and when peole pull the lever they will give that many extra thoughts. I think she will win the nomination, but lose the general election. Obama talks a great talk but has never, ever, had to walk the walk. Never. Really...never. Ever. Hillary at least knows how to play the game, as truth be told someday, Hillary's tell all will position her as the de facto leader in the White House, especially during the end of Bills first term and throughout the overt tumolt of the second term, where he was impeached.

"It's time, It's time"...for what! Reduction in National Security? More ineptitude in the White House? A Charismatic African American who claims he has foreign policy experience because he grew up oversea's until the age of 5 years? Is it that Time? My goodness, you can slam the motley crew of Republicans, but can you, alexv, really, with a straight face , say that Obama, whose single biggest legistaive victory was that he sat ON A PANEL in the STATE OF ILLINOIS to decide whether or not to raise the minimum wage, like, $0.50/hour. That was his BIG victory. And take just a minute, alexv, to look at the freshman congressmans voting record since he took office. He doesn't care. He doesn't vote. On key issues that affect his state and the country. My goodness. My goodness.

At the end of all this, peolel will look back at Deputy Dawg George and say that, at the very least, he was a person of strong personal conviction that he never wavered in his commitment to do what he thought was best for the American people, and for the globe. You can armchair all you like (like all the dem's running who want to rewrite history and suggest they were always against the war) but in the end, George can be blamed for sticking to his guns, as wrong as most believe that to be. Of course, I am an outlier, and I think history will be far more understanding and appreciative of what this admin did once the whole thing rolls out over the next decade...

[Who Shot Sam?]

At the end of all this, peolel will look back at Deputy Dawg George and say that, at the very least, he was a person of strong personal conviction that he never wavered in his commitment to do what he thought was best for the American people, and for the globe.

Which people? Nobody I know can stand the guy. He's stupid, inept, morally corrupt and surrounded by the most despicable set of characters we've seen since the Harding administration. Yeah, he never wavers from his convictions. Unfortunately, his convictions have been almost uniformly wrong. I think you will be among a tiny minority of people who look back on the GWB presidency favorably. It's been an unmitigated disaster in almost every respect.

[alexv]

Sam, agreed that I am inconsistent in referring to Rudy and Bubba, both of whom have a taste for the ladies. My point, i think, was that rudy is not electable due to among other things his philandeering ways. Bubba had a hell of a time getting elected the first time for the same reason. He got it done because he was going against Bush the first who was an incompetent campaigner, and Bubba is a political genius. I don't think rudy is in the same mold. He was a great mayor, but I don't think he has what it takes to be a great president (or to be even electable). Bubba, for all his slickness, ultimately got over (here's a man who in the face of impeachment had huge approval ratings).

On your points about bubba, I agree that many view him in that light. I, for whatever reason, just don't. I view his sexual piccadilloes (don't know about the spelling, but i always think of one of my favorite cuban peasant dishes: picadillo, when I use that word) in a lesser light. He fooled around, probably still does, likes trashy ladies, Hillary doesn't care (IMHO), lies about (wouldn't we all?), and I don't see him as a rapist.

Ultimately, I view him as a very smart man, who, policy-wise, ran the country better than any other president in my lifetime (and on many issues, Sam, I disagree with him). His work on the welfare bill for example, was masterful. This was a republican inspired piece of legislation, which Bill's base fought against. Bill realized that with some tinkering the bill would work, and he fought the Republican majority to get what he wanted (as he did with the whole contract with america thing) and the end result, a piece of legislation lambasted by the liberals, is a model of good legislation for all. Our welfare ills have for all intents and purposes been cured. Only someone as malleable, adroit and ultimately principled as Bill would have gotten away with that.

On hillary, Sam, you and others whose ideas I respect are of the view that if Hillary gets the Dem nod she won't be elected. I can see that happening if the opponent was a worthy one, and if the Bush debacle of the last few years had not happened. But with no serious opponent on the Republican side, and with Iraq, I just cannot see ANY Democratic candidate losing. It boggles my mind how that could happen.

I know Hillary is polarizing, but in this election all bets should be off and the Dems win. Reminds me, as I've said before, of the Carter/Ford year. Nixon=Bush in terms of disaster and the Reps can't overcome it. As you know from prior posts, I am on the conservative side of the ledger (except on religion, sex, abortion) so I don't look forward to liberal shenanigans, but I don't see a way to stop it happening, and if Hillary/Bill get in, my faith in Bill's uniqueness eases my discomfort. In any case, I think american politics are cyclical and it's time for the liberals to take the helm, and those who don't like it can operate as the contra party and wait their turn.

I agree with you about Obama being a nobody. My It's Time riff is not really about it being time for an end to ineptitude in the White House. If obama wins i agree with you that ineptitude will probably be a continuing theme. I think it's time for a change from Republican ineptitude of a particularly noxious type (I really have grown to despise W and my approach has been to generally favor the Reps, so imagine how he makes me feel) to Democractic ineptitude (if Obama gets in) of a different sort, I expect. Hopefully, he'll surround himself with good-old Democratic policy wonk types and the damage will be minimal. But I agree with you that in the best of all possible worlds the Democratic alternative should be better.

On that end, my theory is that we are at a time in our history, similar to the end of the 19th century where the best minds gravitated to business and our presidents were non-entities. The end of the 20th, with Bush, Gore, Kerry, obama etc. seems to me to be a replay. Slim picking all around, except for Bubba who from day one was a star who for whatever reason got turned on by politics (and other things).

On Deputy Dawg, Sam, I just can't agree with your assessment. I know the idea is that he's sticking to his guns as we go down, down and there's something to be said for that, but I just think this man's every utterance is indicative of complete and utter stupidity. No one with any conviction or personal ideas worthy of leading this country can be this inarticulate, this incapable of speaking on his own, of appearing engaged. He's a puppet, someone who with minimum intelligence and maximum advantages got in for a variety of reasons. He has folks around him who are very smart (I like some of his advisors), but who have made mistakes (unintentional and the result of a desire to do good things), and he is incapable of dealing with mistakes. He is the worst combination: stupid and arrogant. So I don't, can't, give him credit for sticking to his guns. I think he's along for a ride that others initiated, and functions as a pure figurehead

[Who Shot Sam?]

alex, I assume your response was to Mr. A's post, not mine.

[alexv]

sorry, guys, I thought I was responding to Sam and was instead responding to Mr. A. I'm at work and busy with crap that I would rather be ignoring so that i could spend time solving the world's ills on EC fan forum. Sam, ignore my comments; Mr. A, go to town.

[Mr. Average]

sorry, guys, I thought I was responding to Sam and was instead responding to Mr. A. I'm at work and busy with crap that I would rather be ignoring so that i could spend time solving the world's ills on EC fan forum. Sam, ignore my comments; Mr. A, go to town.

I appreciate your thoughtful comments and I learn from them. Thanks.

[Who Shot Sam?]

Well I'm off to polls to cancel out my wife's vote!

[Who Shot Sam?]

[oily slick]

well obama should make a clean sweep of the umpteen primaries and cauci over the next 2 weeks and hopefully have enough mo to blow through ohio and even texas and then all this silliness will be over.

[Who Shot Sam?]

Looks like Elvis may have backed a loser. I followed the Wisconsin results on the New York Times live blog and some of the rhetoric being thrown around by the Clinton supporters was just breathtakingly ugly. At this point, if she were to squeeze through and win the nomination I would abstain from voting in the general election.

[oily slick]

well obama should make a clean sweep of the umpteen primaries and cauci over the next 2 weeks and hopefully have enough mo to blow through ohio and even texas and then all this silliness will be over.

like i said.

i have one of those friend of a friend of a friend things of a secret service white house guy from post vietnam to the clintons. says reagan was nice to everyone, nancy hovered a bit like they say, barbara bush was everyone's favorite and bill liked to roam the halls all night and shoot the shit with people. he quit during the clintons cause he had to guard hillary sometimes and realized he wouldn't take a bullet for her. fuck this and fuck that, you work for me to a vietnam vet with 20 years WH experience, plain nasty. it is not hard to imagine.

[Mr. Average]

well obama should make a clean sweep of the umpteen primaries and cauci over the next 2 weeks and hopefully have enough mo to blow through ohio and even texas and then all this silliness will be over.

Here is the real "silliness" post. Watch people run for cover, and cower because there IS no answer. Doesn't matter. Rational thinking has no place in this election.

So here is the question, and I doubt if anyone will have the courage to answer it with actual footnotes or data to support their claim:

"Please explain the top three things that Obama has done in his personal life or politcal career to earn him the White House and the Presidency." Okay, I know that you can't name three, so I will amend my request: name one thing! Al Sharpton (of course the Reverend Al) came up with this one: "He sat on a panel in the State of Illinois to examine the feasibility of raising the state minimum wage". That was Al's numero uno. Guess what? There IS nothing else.

Oh yes, sorry. Charisma. Style. Charm. Oprah. Black. Muslim. Sweet. Strong Wife.

Pick which of the above, or cite your own example of what he has really done!

This will be relegated to the Mr. Average junkheap because, frankly, the courage to answer it results in nothing. So blame it on cain, don't blame it on me. Hillary, as evil as she is, is electable. Obama is not. Unless, of course, Hillary is his running mate.

As Frank Zappa said, "It can't happen here"

Yes it can Frank rest in Peace.

[bambooneedle]

FYI, Barack Obama is not a Muslim. Or did you know that already?

[Who Shot Sam?]

FYI, Barack Obama is not a Muslim. Or did you know that already?

Don't bother the man with details.

[Emotional Toothpaste]

To summarize:

Hillary - Sith Lord Priestess of Evil.

OBama - Forget that his middle name is Hussein, the cat is SMOOVE, and he brings great foreign policy credentials because he lived outside the country briefly as a toddler.

McCain - Completely corrupt geriatric, but Rush hates him so he has that going for him.

[Who Shot Sam?]

Cheney has loads of foreign policy credentials, as did Rumsfeld. Look where that's gotten us. I'm sure that if Obama is elected he will have a team around him with enough experience and insight to enable him to run things effectively. It's fun to see the conservatives working themselves up into a lather already. They thought they would get Hillary and that she would be easy to defeat. Instead they will probably get Obama - a much trickier proposition.

[BlueChair]

February 28, 2008

Obama still battles Muslim myths

WASHINGTON (AP) – For Barack Obama, it is an ember that he has doused time and again, only to see it flicker anew: links to Islam fanned by false rumors, innuendo and association.

Obama and his campaign reacted strongly this week when a photo of him in Kenyan tribal garb began spreading on the Internet. And the praise he received Sunday from Nation of Islam Minister Louis

Farrakhan prompted pointed questions — during Tuesday night's presidential debate and also in a private meeting over the weekend with Jewish leaders in Cleveland.

During the debate, Obama repeated his denunciation of Farrakhan's views, which have included numerous anti-Semitic comments. And, after being pressed, he rejected Farrakhan's support in the presidential race.

The Democratic candidate says repeatedly that he's a Christian who took the oath of office on a family Bible. Yet on the Internet and on talk radio — and in a campaign introduction for John McCain this week — he is often depicted, falsely, as a Muslim with shadowy ties and his middle name, Hussein, is emphasized as a reminder of Iraq's former leader.

"If anyone is still puzzled about the facts, in fact I have never been a Muslim," he told the Jewish leaders in Cleveland, according to a transcript of the private session.

The photo of Obama wearing Kenyan tribal raiments — taken by an Associated Press photographer during his visit in 2006 to the country where his father was born — resurfaced on the Internet amid unsubstantiated claims that it was being circulated by members of Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign. Clinton and her aides said they had nothing to do with it. The Obama campaign accused them of "shameful, offensive fear-mongering."

On Tuesday Republican candidate McCain denounced the introduction he got in Cincinnati that criticized Obama in vivid terms. Talk show host Bill Cunningham referred to Obama three times as "Barack Hussein Obama" and called him a "hack, Chicago-style" politician during the introduction of McCain.


The Obama campaign is closely attuned to the rumors and insinuations. Information on Obama's Christian faith is prominently available on the "Know the facts" page of his Web site. The campaign has distributed flyers to churches in states with presidential contests. And it encourages supporters to flag any attack that may make its way into cyberspace.

"Our campaign is vigilant in quickly responding to any information about Senator Obama that surfaces, be it on the Internet, in the media or from our opponents," spokesman Bill Burton said Wednesday.

If there is confusion — and opportunity for political mischief — it derives at least in part from Obama's rich cultural background. His mother was a white woman from Kansas, his father was Kenyan and he spent part of his childhood in Indonesia, a largely Muslim country.

"My grandfather, who was Kenyan, converted to Christianity, then converted to Islam," Obama said Sunday. "My father never practiced; he was basically agnostic. So, other than my name and the fact that I lived in a populous Muslim country for four years when I was a child, I have very little connection to the Islamic religion."

Obama has become careful in denouncing the links, lately noting that some rumors about him also have been insulting to Muslims. Jim Zogby, founder and president of the Arab American Institute, said many Arab Americans are drawn to Obama because of his cultural background.

"It is clear he wants to have a broader relationship with the Muslim world," Zogby said. "He has a biography that connects him to the Muslim world."

Obama, though in the presidential limelight now for more than a year, is still introducing himself to voters. An AP-Yahoo poll in January asked people to volunteer the first few words that came to mind about each of the candidates, and 4 percent of the respondents, unprompted, mentioned the word Muslim when describing Obama.

Some of the rumors and allegations about Obama are clearly not true, yet still spread, often anonymously:

– A debunked chain e-mail circulating widely on the Internet suggests he is hiding his Islamic roots. It says he was sworn into the Senate on the Quran and turns his back on the flag during the Pledge of Allegiance.

He took his Senate oath with his hand on a family Bible, and he says, "Whenever I'm in the United States Senate, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America." In fact, no candidate could survive if he publicly spurned the pledge.

– Another false report says he attended a Muslim madrassa school as a child in Jakarta. Obama was born in Hawaii and moved to Indonesia when he was 6 to live with his mother and stepfather. He returned to Hawaii when he was 10 to live with his maternal grandparents. Interviews last year by The Associated Press at the elementary school in Jakarta found that it is a public and secular institution and has been open to students of all faiths since before Obama attended in the late 1960s. Said vice principal Akmad Solichin: "Yes, most of our students are Muslim, but there are Christians as well. Everyone's welcome here."

– Obama also has faced questions about his pastor at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, where he has been a member for 20 years. Trinity calls itself "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian." But it accepts non-black congregants. The United Church of Christ's president and general minister, the Rev. John H. Thomas, was quoted in a church publication as pointing out that the Rev. Jane Fisler-Hoffman, Illinois Conference Minister, who is white, "has been a member of the congregation for years."

– Obama has been asked about Farrakhan's words of praise and Farrakhan's receipt of an award from "Trumpet Newsmagazine," a Trinity church publication last month. Obama told Jewish leaders Sunday: "An award was given to Farrakhan for his work on behalf of ex-offenders completely unrelated to his controversial statements. And I believe that was a mistake and showed a lack of sensitivity to the Jewish community and I said so."

Farrakhan did not endorse Obama but said Sunday: "This young man is the hope of the entire world that America will change and be made better." Asked Tuesday night whether he would accept support from Farrakhan, Obama said: "I live in Chicago. He lives in Chicago. I've been very clear, in terms of me believing that what he has said is reprehensible and inappropriate. And I have consistently distanced myself from him."

Following an exchange with Clinton, he then added: "There's no formal offer of help from Minister Farrakhan that would involve me rejecting it. But if the word 'reject' Senator Clinton feels is stronger than the word 'denounce,' then I'm happy to concede the point, and I would reject and denounce."

[Emotional Toothpaste]

Yeah, I know he's not a muslim. Sleazy politics as usual.

But to lots of ordinary idiot voters (and we have PLENTY) --his funny/scary NAME and his skin COLOR, credentials aside, are more than enough to keep him from being elected. Smart campaign move for him a long time ago would've been to adopt a name like Rick Adams, or John Washington. Just like Declan McManus isn't quite as marketable as Elvis Costello.

McCain is our next president by a landslide. Write it down.

[oily slick]

just what our country needs, a waffley old white guy in the white house. and i think he was pokin' that lobbyist because when i was baggin' cindy, he was nowhere to be found. no, i sorta like the old guy. he's funny. and ET may be right, unfortunately. but if our country misses this once in a generation or more opportunity though we are surely cowardly and done. the ability to govern has of course almost everything to do with putting good people around you and almost nothing to do with details. leadership is about knowing that, being smart, judgement, presence. especially when governing something enormous. quick, where was illinois abe in 1856. jury trials mostly.

[alexv]

EmotionalT, I am making similarly definitive, but altogether different prediction.There is no way the republicans will win the presidency. We will have our first woman president or our first african american president. I thought it would be Hillary, but Obie Won is looking good these days. Too bad, I was hoping for a Hilabill presidency.

[miss buenos aires]

Frankly, the more I hear about John McCain, the less I like him.

-- voted to end the Title X family planning program, credited with helping prevent over 9 million abortions, and quite a bit of teen pregnancy as well.

-- opposed government financing of condom distribution.

-- voted against legislation that would have a) required insurance coverage of prescription birth control and b) provided more women with prenatal care.

-- found himself ranked among the 25 worst senators for children by the Children's Defense Fund.

-- voted against making abstinence-only education medically accurate.

[Mr. Average]

FYI, Barack Obama is not a Muslim. Or did you know that already?

Don't bother the man with details.

WSS:

Yes, I know that. But does Hillary? Are you sure? Are you Positive?

I mentioned the 'panel' of possibly ascribed characteristics or traits to spark something that of course, guys like you won't touch. Just a sarcastic "Don't bother the man with details".

Can you answer the question? Are are you, like so many others completely bamboozled by this empty suit. And my favorite: "If he sorrounds himself with a good cabinet, well then...." As they say in SOu Cal "oh, mah Gawd!"

WHAT HAS HE DONE. I am frightened by this guys lack of ability, disclosure, and creativity. His plagarism is legendary. But man can he turned anotheres phrase, with style and grace.

Is Charisma enough to lead the country. And to lend false credibility to the despots of the world by "Meeting without conditions" : shows a naivete that is almost unprecedented in an office of this stature.

Hey, if Hillary wins the nomination, as much as I fear her and her agenda, I have an IDEA what that agenda is and I can deal with it. But she is at least forthcoming in the debates. Baraq was levelled by Russert and he could not keep his stories straight. Hillary misplayed the Bill card, and the Oprah card played by Obama is THE difference, in my opinion.

WHAT HAS HE DONE. He will likely win both TX and OH. SO put on your seatbelt....because I don't think it will be hard to beat McCain. Too many reasons to cite, but maybe 8-12 years ago, a different story.

[bambooneedle]

Yes, I know that. But does Hillary? Are you sure? Are you Positive?

Way to get the emphasis off of yourself... anyway so what if she suspects he's a Muslim?

I mentioned the 'panel' of possibly ascribed characteristics or traits to spark something that of course, guys like you won't touch.

Ironic, looking at your new sig...

[Mr. Average]

What the hell are you talking about Bamboo? I understand clever comments and the turn of a good phrase, but what the hell are you talking about?

I know! You don't have any idea, do you. It was just time to weigh in with a negative to ingratiate yourself. Good play!

However, you fall into the same category as all of the others who would pull the lever for Baraq...and have no substantive reason why you did it.

Yes, I know you are Aussie and there is no political strife and life is all good. Lucky that Oceanic flight 815 left Australia in time to get all of those evil people off your continent, so that you can live in bliss and cast stones at our stupid politics.

But do me a favor. If you are going to weigh in, maybe put a modicum of thought, versus a minimum of criticism that sounds great, but means absolutely nothing.

God, man you are so freakin' predicatable.

[bambooneedle]

I asked a simple enough question, can you answer it? What difference should it make whether she thinks he's a fraud, a flake, a muslim or anything else? - She'd already be trying to expose and undermine him any way she can. So what was the ominous significance of "Are you sure? Are you positive?" there? I just want to know. I've never pretended to know much about US politics.

Btw, keep up that tone and you'll just get ignored.