Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ making-of-MAIT timeline

Pretty self-explanatory
johnfoyle
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Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ making-of-MAIT timeline

Post by johnfoyle »

In London for a few days to see some plays ('39 Steps' last night excellent , Frank McGuinness''There Came A Gypsy Riding' tonight -
awful,complete dogs dinner) I spent this afternoon on The Elvis Costello Heritage Trail , travelling to Whitton to see where he lived , 1976-78. Later ( next week ,probably , when I see how my photos develop etc.) I'll share all the gory details. I will say, though, it certainly puts in perspective Declan/Elvis' desperation to develop a career and move on - its certainly a place to leave!
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Post by verbal gymnastics »

John - when are you going to start doing guided tours?
Who’s this kid with his mumbo jumbo?
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Post by johnfoyle »

Now that's an idea.......

Today I mooched around Alexander St , where the Stiff offices used to be , and the nearby tube station where Elvis bumped into Nick Lowe after dropping of his demo tape........yet again, pics. 'n stuff to follow...next week.
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Post by johnfoyle »

Photos developed , here are my snaps from last Wednesday , Feb.28th '07.

After getting the Waterloo to Windsor train , I reached Whitton.

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Taking a left and a right and a left I'm going up Cypress Avenue where Elvis lived 1976 onwards in Palgrave House at the end of the road.

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The front -

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The side -

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The back -


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The entrance area -

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The other side -

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A pedestrian lane out the back leads to -

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Across the road is the local pub -

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Facing this -

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Last edited by johnfoyle on Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jillbeast
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Thanks John!

Post by jillbeast »

Very generous of you to post your pics! I love computer chair traveling since I'm not allowed to do the real thing until I've booked myself a new gig or so!

Jill
erey
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by erey »

These days, those of us who can't trek John's EC heritage trail in person can do it online. I decided to google the street where EC both grew up and spent much of his early adult life and, lo and behold, I found a number of the units are currently on the market (at prices Ross's Joe Loss Orchestra salary likely couldn't get near, but that's another story). A number of the listings included a floor plan like this one.
ECaptfloorpla.JPG
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As EC says in his memoir, "compact" but well-laid-out. Just over 700 square feet, counting the entryway. We can imagine the front room, where Ross rehearsed songs, was piled pretty high with records and books. A nice, cozy home for a young family of three, or a growing boy and his now-single mother. A few years later, when Ross starts a new family of three and then invites his 18-year-old son to move in, things might start getting mighty crowded. Flash forward a couple more years and that young man is living with his own little family of three in the identical downstairs unit, but unfortunately is too broke to pay the rent on his own. So, add in a couple of violent speed freaks or two American girls and their hippie-lad friend renting the (not!) "spare" room, and you can see how a young songwriter might start to feel he'd been "locked in a room about half the size of a matchbook".

I tried to do the same for EC's home in Whitton, but it appears it is still what it was when the young MacManus family moved there when it first opened in 1976: subsidized housing for low-income people, and therefore the units are not offered for sale or rent on the open market. About all I could find out what that each unit has its own kitchen and bathroom, two bedrooms, and can sleep four people without violating any decent-housing standards.

Then I looked up the location G. Thomson gave for where EC's first wife lived when they started dating, which is presumable where they went when they couldn't afford the Twickenham flat anymore. That turned out to be a small housing development near Heathrow Airport, which indeed would have taken EC past the Hoover Factory on his way to and from work in North Acton. As far has I can tell, that development consists of 2 bedroom/1 bath maisonettes like the one EC lived in in Twickenham and only slightly bigger terraced houses. So that must have been a tight squeeze with EC, his wife, their baby, her parents, and (I'm guessing) a sibling-in-law or two, and of course the vinyl-eating dog. No wonder EC was writing songs on the bus.
Last edited by erey on Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by verbal gymnastics »

Erey - If there was ever the remotest chance that I ever became famous, I would be SO frightened to have you on my case...

...let alone johnfoyle and some of the other board members! :lol:
Who’s this kid with his mumbo jumbo?
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by erey »

Ha-ha, VG! :D

I actually refrained from posting some of the other photos I found online, like Google Street View shots and the interiors of homes for sale or rent, because (non-famous!) people do live there, after all. In fact, someone named Burgoyne still lives on EC's first wife's old street, or did recently enough to still leave a trace on the internet.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by verbal gymnastics »

As if finding things about me were bad enough, you'd leave no stone unturned :shock: :lol:

I'm scared to let you which hemisphere I live in let alone anything else!
Who’s this kid with his mumbo jumbo?
erey
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by erey »

On a slightly more serious note...

Echoing what John Foyle said at the very beginning of this thread about how seeing EC's Whitton home gave him a new perspective on EC's drive to get his career started, the things he wrote about his early adult life in UM&DI -- and, to a much lesser extent, the little bit of independent research I did here -- made me hear EC's early music in a different way.

From what EC had said prior to UM&DI, I always thought: Sure, he had a kid so he had to pinch pennies and not take taxis to see the Sex Pistols at the 101 Club like those rich kids from Bromley or whatever. But in reality it seems he went through a couple of years of the kind of financial stress that can keep you up at night and make you grind your teeth in your sleep. The kind that can be exhausting, if not downright humiliating. I think that not only explains the bone-deep money-anxiety that pervades the Honky Tonk demos (the sound of the most world-weary 21-year-old in the history of the West London suburbs), but also is likely the source -- when the cork flew off the bottle -- of some of the volcanic emotional energy behind the first couple of albums. Not quite what people assumed at the time.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by erey »

Continuing with the Heritage Trail virtual tour...
johnfoyle wrote:
The entrance area -

Image

Image
I want to give proper, if belated, respect to John Foyle for doing what no biographer of EC managed to: Showing that EC could not have moved into this block of flats in Whitton at the end of 1975 or the beginning of 1976, as has always been reported, because the place didn't open for tenets until July 10, 1976, as it says on the front of the building. EC confirmed this in the Mark Kidel documentary ("Mystery Dance") when he said he moved into this building right around the time he got his first record contract, which was no earlier than August 1976. So, we don't know for sure where EC was when he recorded the Honky Tonk demos "in his bedroom" -- probably still in Twickenham, maybe at his in-laws' house -- but it wasn't in this building. Amazing what you can find out when you take the actual world into account.

Speaking of which, the long-told story of how EC wrote "Hoover Factory" -- a song he refers to in UM&DI as being an important creative turning point for him -- because he went past it every day on his way to and from work doesn't really make sense if one assumes he lived in Whitton, or Twickenham, at the time. There's no sensible route from either place to the where he worked in North Acton that will take you past the Hoover Building in in Perivale. He had to have lived further west.

And because I could not resist the urge to dispel any lingering doubt that I might be something less than a total crank, I made this little map to prove the point. :)
PastHooverFactory-small.jpg
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As you can see, for EC to get to the Elizabeth Arden factory (now a multi-tenet office building called the Perfume Factory) by way of the Hoover Building from either his flat in Whitton (Palgrave House) or in Twickenham (Beaulieu Close), he would have had to go further north and west than he needed to and then turned and gone several miles east. Whereas from his in-laws house (I'm fudging the location slightly on this map, to dial down the creepiness factor a bit, but they lived close to the eastern perimeter of Heathrow Airport), he would have taken the 105 bus, just like he says in UM&DI, through Southall and up Greenford Road. From there, he would have either taken a connecting bus (these days, at least, it's the 95 bus) straight down Western Avenue (A40 on this map) past the front of the Hoover Building, or else stayed on the 105 bus just a little bit longer and gotten on the Central line, a ground-level commuter train that goes past the back of the Hoover Building. His last two stops on that train would have been Park Royal and North Acton, just like he mentions in the song.

Here are the routes he would have taken, based on current London public transport.
105to95.jpg
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105toCentral.jpg
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So, that's today's EC geography lesson. Tune in next time...
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by johnfoyle »

I wonder if the July '76 opening of the apartment block was a ceremonial event? Perhaps the building was in use for a while before that.

Otherwise , well done !
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by erey »

Thanks, John.

I suppose it's possible that the building was accepting tenets before it was officially opened. It's also possible that sign on the front contains a typo in the date. :wink: More seriously, real estate websites list this building as having been built in 1976. FWIW, in my experience, these kind of ceremonial openings are usually fudged in the opposite directions. That is, ribbons cut, deadlines declared met, and public relations rewards reaped, before all parts of the building are ready of occupants. Since EC's own account in the Kidel documentary jibes with this scenario, I'm ready to declare it a sure thing until contradictory evidence appears.

EC's says that "Hoover Factory" was partly inspired by Jonathan Richman's "Roadrunner". I've been trying to figure out when EC might have realistically first heard that song. That's not a simple matter, since the song has a rather complicated release (and non-release) history.

EC also says, in UM&DI, that it was around the time he wrote "Hoover Factory" that he started to realize that there was "a new mood in town" -- in other words, that punk was starting to happen in London. I wonder when that information might have made its way to a young husband, father, and full-time office worker living in the West London suburbs (likely a few miles even further away from the action than we previously assumed), albeit one who read the music papers faithfully. I'm guessing probably no earlier than maybe May or June of 1976.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by erey »

The temporal has intersected with the spatial on the thread about EC's first being played on Charlie Gillett's "Honky Tonk" radio show (http://www.elviscostellofans.com/phpBB3 ... 9#p7727899), so I think we're do for another installment on this thread.

The now solidly documented (thanks to Will Birch; bigger thanks to John Foyle for dealing with Will Birch) date of August 15, 1976, as EC's debut on Gillett's show presents us with a couple of problems: 1.) It seems to conflict with EC's recollection in UM&DI that he was living in the flat below the one where he grew up in Twickenham, and; 2.) It likewise seems to conflict with virtual every account, including every one EC has given that I'm aware of, that his contact with Gillett, including discussions about EC releasing a record on Gillett's Oval label, began before any contact with Stiff.

As to #1, here what EC's says in UM&DI:
When that moment came, I went into the kitchen and turned out all the lights. I didn’t want anyone to see me listening to my own voice coming out of the transistor radio. The only illumination came from a streetlamp outside the ground-floor window, which cast a vague glow along the linoleum. I was just one storey below where I’d sat as a child, listening to my Dad rehearse for his radio broadcasts.
Despite this strong sense memory, I'm willing to entertain the possibility that EC is deliberately taking some poetic license here or, more likely, his memory is doing it for him. I don't think it's a stretch to guess his mind might transpose this event to the flat where he spent his early married life, identical to the one upstairs where he spent most of his childhood, if in reality it took place in less familiar surroundings. Perhaps he was really sitting in his in-laws' darkened kitchen with the streetlamp shining through the window. The Burgoynes' house also had a kitchen on the ground floor with a window facing the street. It probably had a linoleum floor, too. (Creepily enough, given the digital panopticon we all live in these days, I was able to determine the floor plan of the Burgoynes' house with little trouble -- although, somewhat to my relief, nothing definitive on the kitchen floor covering, circa 1976.) Or perhaps EC was in the kitchen of his new flat in Whitton, which he would have only just moved into, or some other address the young MacManus family passed through even more fleetingly than the Burgoynes' around this time.

Point #2 is a little more complicated to reconcile with the August 15 Gillett date. We've got several narrative threads here that don't seem to line up, time-wise:

- One is that EC was played on Gillett's show, talked with Gillett about releasing a record on Oval, and got frustrated with how long this was taking to go anywhere, all before Stiff made any serious overtures toward him.

- Another is that EC was the first artist through the door at Stiff, that he gave them a demo tape, and the called him back within a short period of time, perhaps a week. If we go with the conventional assumption that Stiff opened its doors to visitors in time to pre-publicize its first release, Nick Lowe's "And So It Goes" (there was a feature on Stiff in the August 14, 1976, issue of Melody Maker, which would have been on news stands the week starting August 7), that means EC would have likely read about Stiff the week before he was first played on Gillett's show.

- Still another narrative thread, new in UM&DI, is that "Hoover Factory" was a key creative breakthrough for EC, after which he was able to write songs more in sympathy with the "new mood in town" -- that is, punk -- and that the very next song he wrote was "Radio Sweetheart". He says "Hoover Factory" was inspired by two things: living with the Burgoynes, which meant his daily commute now took him past the Hoover Building, and hearing Jonathan Richman's song "Roadrunner". EC thought if Richman could write a song about the "Stop'n'Shop" and other such "exotic" local landmarks, he could write one about the Hoover Building. We know from the photos of EC's contemporaneous notes reproduced in UM&DI that "Radio Sweetheart" -- and another song that would also seem to be in this newer style, "Running Out of Angels" -- were in included in the demo tape he sent Stiff, but not the one he sent Gillett.

A couple of other data points, here:

- Like I said is an earlier post, the release history of the song "Roadrunner" is convoluted and not terribly precisely documented, at least that I've been able to find. A version by Jonathan Richman (solo), backed by the uncredited Greg Khin Band, was released as a single in the UK in mid-September 1975. It's possible EC may have heard that, and the lyrics do mention the Stop'n'Shop prominently, although it's hard to imagine it grabbing him musically during those days in 1976 when he kept reading about this thing called "punk" but had yet to hear any of it. I'm going to guess the version that inspired him was the version on the album called "The Modern Lovers". That's the version that was produced by John Cale and sounds like the Velvet Underground fronted by Mister Rodgers as an 18-year-old Boston University freshman. When it came time to record "Mystery Dance" at his first recording session for Stiff, according to UM&DI, EC had the idea it ought to sound like the Modern Lovers and played his guitar part accordingly. If you believe what you read in Wikipedia, that version of "Roadrunner" was released some time in August 1976.

- At some point, according to multiple retellings by EC of the run up to MAIT, the idea was floated at Stiff that EC share a half-and-half album, a la "Bo and Chuck", with Wreckless Eric. EC was having none of that, so, according to him, he recorded a raft of voice-and-electric-guitar demos of new songs at Pathway studio, supposedly while Eric was at the pub taking a break from his own recording session, to bury the idea. EC recalls this as some time after he recorded "Radio Sweetheart" and "Mystery Dance", although Eric recollection is that EC was at Pathway working on "Mystery Dance" at the time. George Gimarc's book "Punk Diary: 1970 - 1979" gives a very precise date for Eric's first contact with Stiff: Eric dropped his demo tape off on Monday, October 11, 1976; Jake called him back October 13.

Now, lets try to work all this into a timeline, if we can:

1.) Date unknown, sometime before August 15, 1976 -- EC sends demo tape to Gillett. Songs are "Cheap Reward" (then titled "Lip Service"), "Wave a White Flag", "Blame It on Cain", "Jump Up", "Mystery Dance", "Poison Moon". EC's recollection is he was living in the Twickenham flat.

2.) July 10, 1976 -- Palgrave House in Whitton, the block of flats where EC and family will soon live, officially opens.

3.) August 7 -- Article on new record label, Stiff, appears in Melody Maker, cover date August 14, 1976.

4.) August 15 -- First (??) play of EC's demos on Gillett show. Plays "Cheap Reward" and "Wave a White Flag". EC's recollection is he was living in the Twickenham flat.

5.) Date unknown, but after EC is played on Gillett's show -- Gillett and EC discuss the possibility of EC putting a record out on Gillet's Oval label, but, in EC's accounts, these discussions drag on enough to try his patience, until Stiff has other plans for him.

6.) August 1976, exact date unknown -- Modern Lovers album released, including "Roadrunner".

7.) Date unknown -- EC and family can no long afford the Twickenham flat and move in with EC's wife's parents, the Burgoynes. His commute to work now takes him past the Hoover Building.

8.) Date unknown -- Inspired by seeing the Hoover Building every day and hearing "Roadrunner", EC writes "Hoover Factory". In UM&DI, he says this gets him "through the door" to a new kind of songwriting, more in tune with the "new mood in town", punk.

9.) Date unknown -- Next song EC writes after "Hoover Factory" is "Radio Sweetheart".

10.) Date unknown, but after August 7 and likely some weeks before October 11 -- EC has read about Stiff and is first artist to drop off a demo tape at their office. Songs are "Living in Paradise" , "Mystery Dance", "Radio Sweetheart", "Running Out of Angels", "Radio Soul".

11.) Date unknown -- After waiting "a week or so" (??), Stiff contact EC.

12.) Date unknown -- EC, Nick Lowe, and some members of Clover record "Radio Sweetheart" and "Mystery Dance", perhaps as demos for Dave Edmunds' record. These are the versions released on MAIT. EC recollection is that he's living at Palgrave House in Whitton.

13.) Dates unknown -- EC is writing new songs, taping them at home, and dropping these demos off at Stiff's office whenever he can, usually stopping by after work.

14.) October 11 -- Wreckless Eric drops off his demo tape at Stiff. Stiff likes the tape and call Eric two days later to have him come back in to the office. This can't have been too soon after receiving EC's demo tape, because all at Stiff have said that, except for EC's, the initial round of demos they got were terrible.

15.) Date unknown, but after October 11 -- Stiff contacts EC about recording more songs with members of Clover, not as songwriter's demos but for him as a recording artist, perhaps for an EP or half of a Bo-and-Chuck-type album with Wreckless Eric.

16.) Date unknown, but supposedly during Wreckless Eric's recording session at Pathway -- Hating the idea of sharing an album with Eric, EC sets out to bury it by recording solo demos for these songs at Pathway, supposedly while Eric was taking a break: "Welcome To The Working Week", "Blue Minute", "Miracle Man", "Waiting For The End Of The World", "Call On Me", "Red Shoes", "I Don't Want To Go Home", "I Hear A Melody".

17.) October 22 -- Stiff releases what is regarded as the first (UK) punk rock record, The Damned's "Neat Neat Neat". As much as EC was aware of the sea change in pop music caused by punk, he never heard any of it until records started being released.

18.) November or December, exact date unknown -- EC arranges and rehearses songs that become MAIT, with Clover, at Headley Grange outside of London.

19.) December 1976 and January 1977 -- EC records MAIT with Clover, Nick Lowe producing, at Pathway.
Last edited by erey on Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by thepopeofpop »

I endorse the above timeline - which hopefully will get some more dates as research continues.

"Sounds" ran a feature (by Chas de Whalley) in November 1976 - about Nick and Clover in the studio. I'm trying to get a hold of that article, as it probably has some relation to Jake's idea to pair Clover with EC for MAIT.

As for "punk" - Sounds ran a special "Punk" feature in July 1976 - even if EC had never seen or heard a punk band he can hardly have been unaware of the growing interest in a new movement that promised to be direct and spare:

Image

Sounds front cover, July 17, 1976.
--Paul--
Now put on your ironic dancing shoes
And dig my brand new rhythm and hues:
https://www.paulinglis.org
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by johnfoyle »

Thanks for this erey.


Some additional information tends to confirm that MAIT was recorded in December 1976. Backing band Clover supported Thin Lizzy on a U.K. tour from October 20th to November 19th. Alex Call of Clover , in his 2010 memoir '867-5309 Jenny The Song That Saved Me', places , on pages 203/4 , the sessions with Elvis as being after that tour. He also says that he & Huey Lewis weren't needed for the sessions. There is also the inspiration for Less than Zero. Elvis has said it was inspired by a TV interview with Oswald Mosley. The one that seems to be the most prominent in that time period was reviewed by Clive James in The Observer on Sunday , November 21st.

http://www.clivejames.com/node/428

Clive's comments were about a show that went out each night that previous week . I haven't been able to establish which night featured Mr Mosley , but it seems to have between Nov. 15th -19th. I could swear I once read a comment by Elvis that he recorded the song the day after seeing the show - maybe that was just a demo.

What does seem certain is that the recordings were finished by some point in January 1977 . This invoice , as reproduced in Richard Groothuizen's So Far (1983) , shows January 27th as the mixing date.

Image
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton

Post by johnfoyle »

By the way , the non-Mosley part of that TV review is a neat summary of life in the U.K. in late 1976 & what surrounded Elvis as he put together his first album -

http://www.clivejames.com/node/428

Clive James -


In I, Claudius (BBC2) Caligula finally got his. John Hurt had a marvellous time in the role, poncing lethally about with lines like 'And now I must away to shed more light.' Perhaps inspired by Hurt's furiously camping presence, the scenes of dissipation, which earlier in the series tended to recall the Windmill, rose to approximate the standard set by Raymond's RevueBar. Which is probably what the originals were like, when you come to think about it. The famous horse made an appearance. 'His life has really opened up since I made him a senator.' It was clear that Caligula must have posed the same problem then that Idi Amin poses now: how to knock the mad bastard off. A question less ethical than practical. The contract having at last been filled, Claudius rose to power. A wonderful series, like a sexed-up version of The Brothers (BBC1), in which the big question now is whether April will get off with the Dutchman.

On Miss World (BBC 1) Patrick Lichfield and Sacha Distel helped herd the beef. Even further down-market, The Royal Variety Performance (BBC1) was hosted by Max Bygraves, who tried the time-honoured gimmick of singing the finale at the start. 'And if you doan like our finish/You doan have to stay for the show.' Thanks. Click.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ recording dates for MAIT , Dec. 1976?

Post by krm »

More info concerning recording dates at Pathway. This is from a Damned biography.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ recording dates for MAIT , Dec. 1976?

Post by johnfoyle »

Wow - thanks! That seems to confirm that the first recording session with some of Clover was on September 17th 1976. That was a Friday so Elvis may have been 'too sick' to go to work that day & made a weekend of it.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ recording dates for MAIT , Dec. 1976?

Post by johnfoyle »

Another wow! That 1988 book by Carol Clerk is long out of print and is selling for a fortune as a second hand item. Carol did a great book about The Pogues. Sadly , she died in 2010.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ recording dates for MAIT , Dec. 1976?

Post by johnfoyle »

Radio Sweetheart 1.00- 1.45

Mystery Dance 1.50 - 2.45
2.?? - 3.50

.....time costs money!
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ recording dates for MAIT , Dec. 1976?

Post by And No Coffee Table »

Did Nick erase Elvis' session when he recorded the Damned and the Takeaways? (And what happened to this studio version of "Let's Eat"? I only know the version from Stiffs Live.)
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ recording dates for MAIT , Dec. 1976?

Post by erey »

My god! Some amazing finds, here. I'd seen the January 27, 1977 Pathway mixing receipt before, but I never imagined we'd turn up a dated receipt for EC first session for Stiff.
And No Coffee Table wrote:Did Nick erase Elvis' session when he recorded the Damned and the Takeaways?
No, these are the versions of "Radio Sweetheart" and "Mystery Dance" that were ultimately released.
johnfoyle wrote:
Mystery Dance 1.50 - 2.45
2.?? - 3.50
This jibes with EC's recollection of recording the main track and then overdubbing the piano.
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ recording dates for MAIT , Dec. 1976?

Post by And No Coffee Table »

erey wrote:No, these are the versions of "Radio Sweetheart" and "Mystery Dance" that were ultimately released.
I was thinking he could have erased the session tape after mixing the final takes... although the fact that "Radio Sweetheart" was later remixed for Ten Bloody Marys makes that theory unlikely. Any idea why Elvis' portion is crossed out?
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Re: Seeing Elvis Costello's Whitton/ recording dates for MAIT , Dec. 1976?

Post by erey »

And No Coffee Table wrote:
I was thinking he could have erased the session tape after mixing the final takes... although the fact that "Radio Sweetheart" was later remixed for Ten Bloody Marys makes that theory unlikely. Any idea why Elvis' portion is crossed out?
Maybe they reused the label, or log or whatever it is, rather than the tape.
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