Punch the Clock...

Who Shot Sam? · Post by **Who Shot Sam?** » Mon May 24, 2004 9:49 pm

Most underrated EC album? I think so.

I love this record and was so happy to re-discover it, so to speak, in its Rhino incarnation. Always brings a smile to my face. A lot of fun stuff early on side one - heavy on the TKO horns and the ooo ooo girls and ending with the magisterial "Shipbuilding" - then "TKO", "Pills and Soap" and "Charm School" on side two. I think this album lost a bit of luster because it got lumped in with GCW, which was a production disaster. It would be nice to hear EC break out some of these tunes live (other than "Shipbuilding", which has been a regular part of recent set-lists).

daybreaker · Post by **daybreaker** » Mon May 24, 2004 10:41 pm

He did Pills and Soap in Nashville with the Brodskys. Killer.

Almost Blue gets my vote as most underrated, though.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Tue May 25, 2004 12:13 am

I gotta say "Mighty Like A Rose" is the most underrated album.

Punch The Clock and Almost Blue are great though.

"Sam?"- what is such a disaster about GCW's production? Are you saying that because you read it somewhere on the internet?

seanpointblank · Post by **seanpointblank** » Tue May 25, 2004 1:28 am

wehitandrun wrote: "Sam?"- what is such a disaster about GCW's production? Are you saying that because you read it somewhere on the internet?

The production makes it EC's most dated effort. On top of the terrible addition of that Miami Vice soundtrack sounding 80s sax, the songs just have way too much ugly synth going on, and it just sounds painfully "80s" in the worst way possible. Hearing Roy Orbison do 'The Comedians' or even EC's demo just shows how much the songs really cry out for a stripped down production. ALSO, the Attractions are playing the most unmotivated set of their careers. On top of that, EC's melodies and hooks really aren't up to par with all of the albums leading up to that point. Though he had been cranking out material like a Mormon woman does babies year after year, and you'd expect him to finally run dry on great, great material.

The album isn't widely regarded as his worst simply because it is widely regarded as his worst. It simply is his worst original album. It has some high points and some great songs buried down deep, but as it stands, GCW is, generously, a 4 out of 10.

daybreaker · Post by **daybreaker** » Tue May 25, 2004 1:57 am

Goodbye Cruel World has grown on me recently. I like several of the songs. But compare the album versions to other versions. For example, the live take on Worthless Thing is about 100x better than the cut on the album. I Wanna Be Loved played live, with EC's guitar standing in for the aforementioned Miami Vice sax, is at least as much of an improvement. The same can be said for Only Flame in Town. Punch the Clock is probably lumped in with GCW in part because it is a little horn happy, especially TKO. I really, really hate that song.

verbal gymnastics · Post by **verbal gymnastics** » Tue May 25, 2004 3:54 am

Unfortunately Punch the Clock and Goodbye Cruel World came out at a time when music in general was pretty poor in my opinion. The sound of the times was not inspiring.

GCW came at a time when Elvis was very low and I think it shows.

Interestingly, Elvis had just gotten to the stage of playing longer shows and really varying the setlists every night. However when he toured Punch the Clock he was restricted to playing almost the same songs every night.

When he came to tour Goodbye Cruel World the setlists were much much longer but also full of melancholy covers eg I Still Miss Someone, Dark End of the Street, Young Boy Blues.

Who Shot Sam? · Post by **Who Shot Sam?** » Tue May 25, 2004 7:33 am

seanpointblank wrote:
wehitandrun wrote: "Sam?"- what is such a disaster about GCW's production? Are you saying that because you read it somewhere on the internet?
The production makes it EC's most dated effort. On top of the terrible addition of that Miami Vice soundtrack sounding 80s sax, the songs just have way too much ugly synth going on, and it just sounds painfully "80s" in the worst way possible. Hearing Roy Orbison do 'The Comedians' or even EC's demo just shows how much the songs really cry out for a stripped down production. ALSO, the Attractions are playing the most unmotivated set of their careers. On top of that, EC's melodies and hooks really aren't up to par with all of the albums leading up to that point. Though he had been cranking out material like a Mormon woman does babies year after year, and you'd expect him to finally run dry on great, great material.

The album isn't widely regarded as his worst simply because it is widely regarded as his worst. It simply is his worst original album. It has some high points and some great songs buried down deep, but as it stands, GCW is, generously, a 4 out of 10.

What he said.

Seriously, I think there are some great songs on GCW, but the wimpy sax and synths do them no favors. When I heard him sing "I Wanna Be Loved" live last year, it was a revelation.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Tue May 25, 2004 11:31 am

Let's hope the reissue has some really great live versions: he did a mean 'The Great Unknown' in Robert Wyatt's Meltdown a couple o' years back - first time he'd ever performed it live, apparently!

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Tue May 25, 2004 12:28 pm

I greatly disagree with the GCW opinions I've read. Originally, I actually stayed away from the album because of how bad everybody said the production was.

Well, with logic, I first thought... maybe it sounds 80s because it was recorded in the 80s

Then I listened to it, and I heard nothing 80s about it- with exception to "I Wanna Be Loved"- which was a production butchering.

"The Only Flame In Town" has really grown on me as well(it was the only other song I couldn't stand- the SAX intro).

I really think it's a cheap cop out, or a display of close minded ignorance to hate GCW because of the production. The production is not that bad, at all. I love the lyrics on that album as well. The songs are just great (not to mention it is possibly his best album cover).

I love when I hear fans of Squeeze talk bad about the production on GCW. There is nothing more bad-80s than Squeeze. But people let it go, I suppose. When you have albums such as This Year's Model, Armed Forces, and Trust to live up to- I guess it's a completely different situation.

Who Shot Sam? · Post by **Who Shot Sam?** » Tue May 25, 2004 1:19 pm

wehitandrun wrote:I greatly disagree with the GCW opinions I've read. Originally, I actually stayed away from the album because of how bad everybody said the production was.

Well, with logic, I first thought... maybe it sounds 80s because it was recorded in the 80s

Then I listened to it, and I heard nothing 80s about it- with exception to "I Wanna Be Loved"- which was a production butchering.

"The Only Flame In Town" has really grown on me as well(it was the only other song I couldn't stand- the SAX intro).

I really think it's a cheap cop out, or a display of close minded ignorance to hate GCW because of the production. The production is not that bad, at all. I love the lyrics on that album as well. The songs are just great (not to mention it is possibly his best album cover).

I love when I hear fans of Squeeze talk bad about the production on GCW. There is nothing more bad-80s than Squeeze. But people let it go, I suppose. When you have albums such as This Year's Model, Armed Forces, and Trust to live up to- I guess it's a completely different situation.

Different strokes, I suppose. For what it's worth, I love mid-'80s Squeeze. Some of their later albums were a little disappointing, and Difford & Tilbrook is painful listening, but they were great pop songwriters. Argybargy, East Side Story - great albums. Guess I'm ignorant.

I don't hate GCW. In fact, I think there are some real gems on the album.

migdd · Post by **migdd** » Tue May 25, 2004 1:52 pm

It's not that the production on GCW was bad, per se. It's basically the same 80's-era production qualities as on Punch the Clock. However, PTC was written with that production ethic in mind. GCW, by EC's estimation, was meant to be an "almost-folk" album of mostly downbeat ballads. The production values, while not bad in themselves, didn't work for the songs. The incredibly superior "alternate" or live versions of somes like Deportee, The Comedians, The Only Flame in Town, I Wanna Be Loved and others attest that the arrangements and production of GCW worked against the songs' strengths for the most part.

IMHO, of course!

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Tue May 25, 2004 3:41 pm

Great point mig.

But, I must say, Deportees Club is one of my favorite songs from that album. I never cared for Deportee, too dull for me.

I see where you're coming from. I was sort of judging the album as the entire rykodisc, including "Baby It's You"(which is great), and "Get Yourself Another Fool".

But, GCW alone, is still really great in my mind. Hopefully the Rhino-disc will bring more over to the darkside.

seanpointblank · Post by **seanpointblank** » Tue May 25, 2004 3:54 pm

How is it a cop out to dislike the record because of its production? There are a few good songs on that record buried beneath those gross, thick layers, but why should I have to struggle and work to hear the quality beneath 20 feet of muck? The production IS bad. And you're telling me the cheeseball sax in "Flame" isn't as 80s as it gets?

However, the production isn't the only reason I don't like the record. Just as with the new Morrissey album, there are maybe two or three really good songs, a whole lot of foul production, really uninspired instrumentation, and some just overall weak tracks with weak melodies.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Tue May 25, 2004 4:55 pm

Every Morrissey album is weak and lame.

GCW isnt. The songs are great. Go ahead, get offended because I like an album you don't.

There is no need to struggle to hear any of GCW's songs. They are not buried beneath anything. Nice cop out.

seanpointblank · Post by **seanpointblank** » Tue May 25, 2004 5:08 pm

Yeah, I'm copping out. I'm explaining exactly to you why the album is bad, and you are simply saying "you are wrong! cop out!"

You haven't backed up your opinion at all. I'm not getting offended that you like the record, I don't like that I presented an argument, you dismiss it as a cop out for no reason, and then make no argument of your own. That's obnoxious, petty, and immature.

ALSO: If you really think every Moz album is weak and lame, that's your problem. He is far and above one of the most accomplished lyricists and vocalists in music, and one of the most important of the past 20+ years.

The songs are buried, you might like what they are buried under, but most people don't. Dated overproduction just ain't my bag.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Tue May 25, 2004 5:15 pm

Hah, please, spare me your ball-cradleing of Morrissey.

What else can I say? You say it's buried, I say it isn't. I could rewrite every sentence you wrote in the "no" form, but I think it's easier just to say you're wrong.

The songs are right up front for you to listen to. I don't see what you think they're buried under. Maybe I'm just blind, right?

The sax intro to the record "is as 80s as it gets", sure. But that doesn't make it bad, by any means. The record was recorded in the 80s, get over it.

So, we've established that the sax is 80s... where from there? The record is bad because of "The Only Flame In Town" and "I Wanna Be Loved"?

Hah, nice try. Nice cop out.

Who Shot Sam? · Post by **Who Shot Sam?** » Tue May 25, 2004 9:43 pm

wehitandrun wrote:Hah, please, spare me your ball-cradleing of Morrissey.

What else can I say? You say it's buried, I say it isn't. I could rewrite every sentence you wrote in the "no" form, but I think it's easier just to say you're wrong.

The songs are right up front for you to listen to. I don't see what you think they're buried under. Maybe I'm just blind, right?

The sax intro to the record "is as 80s as it gets", sure. But that doesn't make it bad, by any means. The record was recorded in the 80s, get over it.

So, we've established that the sax is 80s... where from there? The record is bad because of "The Only Flame In Town" and "I Wanna Be Loved"?

Hah, nice try. Nice cop out.

Why the hostility? People are entitled to feel whatever way they choose about music. You love GCW, while I think it could have been so much better. Vive la différence! Chill.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Tue May 25, 2004 10:55 pm

My hostility is in responce to hostility.

daybreaker · Post by **daybreaker** » Tue May 25, 2004 11:44 pm

wehitandrun wrote:My hostility is in responce to hostility.

You think that saying an album that you like is bad is an act of hostility?

Jackson Monk · Post by **Jackson Monk** » Wed May 26, 2004 12:44 am

Ha ha...still waiting for your scholarship to the Boston Charm School to come through, are you WHAR??

seanpointblank · Post by **seanpointblank** » Wed May 26, 2004 4:12 am

wehitandrun wrote:My hostility is in responce to hostility.

I wasn't hostile to you at all at first. I explained why I think the record is terrible, you simply called that argument a "cop out", which was entirely incorrect and disrespectful. On top of that, to begin with you insinuated that people think this album is poor because it may or may not be the popular way of thinking, which is also disrespectful. I understand the record was recorded in the 80s, and all records are going to some degree sound like they were recorded when they were recorded, but that doesn't mean it has to be DATED. If a band came out with This Year's Model right now, it would still be relevant today, because it is still a great, great record that didn't have to put itself into any context. GCW would never fit anywhere but when it came out, that's the problem. EC has been magnificent about making records that will age like fine wine, GCW, unfortunately, has aged like Robert Smith.

Yeah, Morrissey sucks, but Daryl Palumbo rules.

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Wed May 26, 2004 1:11 pm

"On top of that, to begin with you insinuated that people think this album is poor because it may or may not be the popular way of thinking, which is also disrespectful."

What? Are you kidding me?

Did this debate just turn into a debate of "bad tone of voice"?

Wow, you're ridiculous, man.

First of all, all you did was prove my point by mentioning This Year's Model. Don't understand why? Re-read the posts, maybe you can understand who the hostile one was.

Me saying "Cop Out" was not disrespectful, or hostile. Yet, you responded to it with hostility. MY POINT EXACTLY.

Sod off.

Jackson Monk · Post by **Jackson Monk** » Wed May 26, 2004 1:49 pm

ho hum

seanpointblank · Post by **seanpointblank** » Wed May 26, 2004 2:20 pm

wehitandrun wrote: "Sam?"- what is such a disaster about GCW's production? Are you saying that because you read it somewhere on the internet?

Are YOU kidding ME? Clearly you are suggesting this person didn't form their own opinion and just believe this because other people do.

Please explain how I proved your point. A record like TYM that shows little signs of aging in comparison to GCW that is as aged as a record can get, I want to know how that proves your point. Try actually backing up what you say instead of just suggesting that you can.

You saying "cop out" was disrespectful. I explained to you exactly why I thought what I thought, you did not explain why you thought what I thought, but instead just dismissed very valid reasons for not enjoying a record as a "cop out". Would it have been more up your alley if I said "the record is poopy"?

wehitandrun · Post by **wehitandrun** » Wed May 26, 2004 2:51 pm

seanpointblank wrote:Are YOU kidding ME? Clearly you are suggesting this person didn't form their own opinion and just believe this because other people do.

Please explain how I proved your point. A record like TYM that shows little signs of aging in comparison to GCW that is as aged as a record can get, I want to know how that proves your point. Try actually backing up what you say instead of just suggesting that you can.

This is getting redundant.

You quoted something I didn't even say to you.

You are most definitly the most immature member of this board.

If you are too much of a fool to understand how you proved my point, then I suggest giving up now.

I'm through dealing with you. You're an annoyance. You're a broken record with bad record taste.

*EDIT(lots of them):

I figure if I'm gonna leave this thread... I'll leave it with some words of wisdom.

Listening to GCW, "Home Truth", "Sour Milk Cow Blues", "Room With No Number", "Inch By Inch", "The Deportees Club", "Peace In Our Time", "Love Field", "Worthless Thing"... none of these songs sound dated to me. They sound about as dated as Get Happy!! to me. Once again, maybe I'm blind (or deaf?), but what I see (or hear) is great vocal work by Elvis on great lyrics. "Inch By Inch" has an impressive acoustic rythm, and a tad bit of sax(but Sax is back in style, you should hear today's SKA! it's to die for... ick).

I guess for me... if you put Elvis's words and voice on something, it's great (with exceptions, of course).

Well, that's all I can say. Oh yeah, Morrisey sucks, Palumbo rocks.