The Politics of Politics: The Ride of a Lifetime

[Mr. Average]

Did I mention "skip a step"??? How many steps did we skip before we did ANYTHING in IRAQ. On the eve of the Monica Lewinsky scandal break Bill Clinton bombed the shit out of IRAQ.. a mile and baby formula factory and a pharma house. Impulsively and to divert. We added step after step to delay the intervention, but ultimately, something had to be done, especially with the increasing instability in IRAQ.

When the IRAQ discussions started under Bush we saber-rattled for between 9-10 months and assured them we would come if they did not comply with agreed upon sanctions. They not only didi not comply, but they threw our investigators/peace-keepers out and thumbed their nose at us. Do you forget? And so we moved the date back for intervention between 3 and 5 times, each time announcing well in advance our intentions, dropping pamphlets so that civilians could avoid the killing zones, etc.

So they had almost ten months reprieve before we did anything even though the bipartisan vote as solid to proceed. Here we come! No, we aren't, take your time. Wait, here we come!, Really really! No, not yet, take your time.

The entire time Saddam thumbed his nose and played games with the lives and saftey of his people. HE was wrong. HE was wrong.

The rvisionists of history have conveniently forgotten all this because it doesn't fit the blood-thirsty and ignorant/"no diplomacy" George W Bush model. But it is factual and a matter of public record.

[Who Shot Sam?]

Mr. A, you need to watch Olbermann's interview with McClellan. It will confirm the ignorant/no diplomacy Bush for you. But of course Keith is biased and McClellan's a turncoat, so we shouldn't believe a word of it.

The fact is that we could have contained Saddam short of invading Iraq. He was not a threat to our national security and we only went in there under the false cover of a response to 9/11. I can't believe there is even a debate about it anymore. All of the proponents of the Iraq War have been proven wrong by subsequent events, again and again. All of their predictions about when the war would end have been false. We've spent billions and have only succeeded in diminishing our authority around the world and further encouraging Islamic extremists. Our economy is in the toilet, the dollar is weaker than it has been in a long long time and we have no money to pay for the things we need because we are too busy blowing it all in Iraq. Moreover our military is in a sorry state. All on Bush's watch. By any objective measurement his presidency has been an abject failure.

[Mike Boom]

Did I mention "skip a step"??? How many steps did we skip before we did ANYTHING in IRAQ

Lets see - you skipped the step where you get your "intelligence" about weapons of mass destruction correct, and therefor your whole reason for the war in the first place.

Pretty major step I would say.

[Boy With A Problem]

Condy enlists in the KISS Army -

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080530/ap_ ... pKvjRI2ocA



Good God - Paul Stanley victim of a plastic surgery disaster

[BlueChair]

Obama clinches the nomination!

[LessThanZero]

No matter your candidate of choice, artificial barriers that were created to limit women and minorities have been broken, and hopefully all of the dams of injustice in this country will also start to crack.

"Because you decided that change must come to Washington, because you believed that this year must be different then all the rest. Because you chose not to listen to your doubts or your fears, but to your greatest hopes and HIGHEST ASPIRATIONS, tonight we mark the end of one historic journey, with the beginning of another. A journey that will bring a new and better day to America. Becuase of YOU, tonight, I can stand here and say to you, that I WILL BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!

Thank God Almighty!

[Who Shot Sam?]

My mom called me at 9 last night, ecstatic about the whole thing. I was too busy reading a Goosebumps book to my daughter to watch the hoopla on TV.

I think the guy has something special, and so apparently does a 60-something-ish white woman in Seattle. Hopefully he will prevail in November.

More than anything else, I want to feel proud rather than ashamed of our country's leadership again.

[alexv]

Mr. A, in scanning the recent posts I noticed that you referred to me as capitulating to the Board on the presidential choice. I know you appreciate my posts, and I appreciate that, but I think you got me wrong on this one.

Let me clarify. My point, for quite some time now, has been that I believe we need a change in party leadership at the Presidential level. I would rather see someone whose views, in many cases, I disagree with as the President for the next 4 years, than see a Republican candidate, whose views I might more generally agree with.

My rationale is based on the fact that we have had 8 years of Republican rule, and although those years have not been anywhere as disastrous as partisans on the other side claim, I do believe that there has been one fundamental failure which is enough to warrant change: the Iraq war. As I've noted before, I supported the war, and still think it was the right thing to do. But the irrefutable fact is that the conduct of the war has been a failure.

Even if things begin to come under control (as I think they are, slowly), it has taken far too long, and will have cost us much, much more than was expected. The folks in charge, even if right in intent, have screwed up the conduct of the war royally. I can't imagine any kind of revisionist history that can overcome this plain fact. That kind of gargantuan mistake must exact a price, particularly from an administration that exhibited extraordinary arrogance at the very beginning of the war. The prancing and preening displays were a clear sign that they believed that the war had been won when Saddam was toppled. They had no clue about the level of difficulties ahead. Had they at least signaled to the nation that they understood that the task would be a long-term one I could at least give them some benefit of the doubt. But their actions showed a basic lack of understanding of the task, and show that they made a major blunder, similar to what Johnson did in VNam. The Democrats in 68 paid for it; the Republicans in 08 should also pay.

I would not vote for any Republican candidate in 08, and I'm thankful that McCain does not excite me, because I can go Democrat with few regrets. I am not sold on Obama, and would have preferred Hillary, if only because I think BC was, overall, a terrific President (and have noted that before). I did not agree with everything he did, but his presidential abilities and instinct were top-notch and we prospered greatly during his tenure.

I think Obama is a light-weight, and a bit of a tool, but I am sure we will survive his tenure. The fact that he is Afro-American is also something that comforts me: tool or not, light-weight or not, he is qualified to be President, and I can't think of another AA politican who better represents the African American constituency. I am thankful that he, and not JJackson or some other divisive firebrand, will be the first African American President. This will show how far our country has come on race relations and is a very good thing.

Mr. A, american politics is cyclical. We sway to the right and then to the left, but never far enough to the right to satisfy you, I suspect, and never far enough to the left to satisfy some of you tormentors on the Board, I suspect. We've been swaying to the right for a while, and that has gotten all the lefties excited and given them an opportunity to rant as the opposition party. Now, I suspect we'll sway to the left for a while, and folks like you, and me in some cases, will get agitated and rant and rave about the country going to hell. It won't. I believe that opposition party ranting is good for progress, more so than what parties do when in power. It leads to new ideas, new commitment and ultimately to progress. That should become the Republican stance for the next 4 to 8 years. I can live with that.

Now, there are things about Obama that make me wince, and ET's GWill posting gets at a lot of them. He's got that liberal demagogic thing about him. It's when the bull-shit comes out. Clinton would speak like this too, but governed by more adult standards. But I'll leave the ranting for when he becomes Pres.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[spooky girlfriend]

Gotta watch this:

[LessThanZero]

No love for beer!

Senator Obama is a wine-sipping elitist.

The Senator who suspended her campaign likes to throw back shots with hard-working whites.

And Senator McCain will veto ANY beer!

I bet that's not playing well with the in-laws....

By the way, I recoomend Bell's Oberon if you ever get a chance...brewed right here in Kalamazoo in the summertime.

[pophead2k]

Bell's is outstanding. I drank some on tap tonight. Yum. Oh yeah, go Obama!

[spooky girlfriend]

Oh my mercy. Did you guys see this on The Daily Show last night?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index ... yDate=true

[bambooneedle]

McCain - Lost In Space
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLuqxXwG ... re=related

He just exudes that old world kind of two-faced authoritarian hypocrisy... The nice-guy act looks so painful!

In 1992, in front of three reporters and a couple of his aides -
McCain's wife (Running her hand through McCain's hair): "Your hair seems to be thinning."
McCain: "At least I don't cake on the make-up like a trollop, you c@#t."

[Mike Boom]

Terrorist Fist Jab.

[BlueChair]

Sen. Joe Biden as Obama's running mate. Discuss.

[Who Shot Sam?]

Sen. Joe Biden as Obama's running mate. Discuss.

Seems like a good choice to me. Glad it's not Hillary.

[spooky girlfriend]

It appears as though it was a well thought out decison. Biden is older, a different race, longer experience, . . . it appears to be a nice balance. Never really thought it would be Hillary. Just wouldn't have worked on sooooo many levels. I kind of thought it wuold be Biden all along.

[Mr. Average]

Probably the decision that will insure Obama's failure to win the office. Biden will be vetted in the court of public opinion and the verdict will not be kind.

Biden Voted for the war in Iraq - "ohh Snap!"
When Obama voted against armored vehicles for our troops, he was supposedly scolded by Biden (I don't have a reference, but he first part is dead balls on center...he voted against armored weaponry for our troops).
Biden stated in 2005 that he would be proud to run for President on the same ticket as McCain
During the debates, Biden expressed, in reference to Obama, that the Presidency was not an "on the job training" position

During the Saddleback church deal, Obama said that regards the ethical moral and biologic issues swirling around abortion, he could not speak to it with any degrree of specificity because it was "above his paygrade".

If you cannot fathom or understand something, why do you continually vote FOR patial birth abortion, the process where an otherwise healthy fetus is partial delivered, then the base of the skull is pierced and the brains are sucked from the cranium. If you cannot speak to the issue with specificity, why vote to kill an otherwise viable child? I cannot wait to hear Biden weigh in on that after he suffered the horror of horrors, losing a lovely wife and young child due to a tragic accident in the 70's...

[alexv]

I still believe Obama will win (should win), but his selection of Biden is truly mind-boggling. Since Biden has been prominent on the Judiciary Committee for many years, I feel as if I've gotten to know him well over the years. To put it bluntly, he's an idiot, that special kind of Senate idiot, the one with the suave manner and empty mind. He's a snake-oil salesman with low IQ. How he's survived in the Senate all these years is a testament that that peculiar institution's failure to weed out the remnants of old-fashioned politics that keep politically astute morons like Biden in office. The Senate used to be full of these types. Not so much anymore, but Biden is hanging in there, keeping the tradition alive. If I were Obama, I would be very weary of any VP debates.

By the way, on Obama, if folks do a little digging ton he Net they can come up with Questions/Answers that Obama prepared for his law school class years ago when he taught at University of Chicago Law School (one of our better law schools). The question is a classic law school hypothetical, involving a number of current issues. His model answer shows, in my opinion, tremendous subtly of mind, and augurs well for the future, once he's elected. Whether you agree or disagree with his conclusions, it's clear that he's done a lot of thinking about the topics, on his own, and not based on papers or thinking done by others.

[Emotional Toothpaste]

McCain picked Sarah Palin for VP. Very smart and calculated move. There are enough still-pissed-off Hilary supporters out there that could be drawn to her, despite her ultra-conservative tendencies. This will be an interesting election, but I think with this pick McCain has a lock on it.

[Boy With A Problem]

Bold pick - but it negates his inexperience argument against Obama. However, it may appeal to the fence sitting Hilariates; though Palin is very much anti abortion. However again - her views now appeal to the evangelical wing. Interesting pick and I think the next couple of months will be fascinating.......and how great was Obama's speech last night?

[Who Shot Sam?]

McCain picked Sarah Palin for VP. Very smart and calculated move. There are enough still-pissed-off Hilary supporters out there that could be drawn to her, despite her ultra-conservative tendencies. This will be an interesting election, but I think with this pick McCain has a lock on it.

A lock on it? Come on man. Most people have no idea who she is, and there isn't much in her ideology to appeal to disaffected Hillaryites. Moreover, she doesn't do anything to strengthen McCain in a swing state.

I like Obama's chances. It's not gonna be a landslide, but after a few wobbly weeks I think he has his legs again.

[Emotional Toothpaste]

WSS - you're in New England area somewhere, right? Totally skewed perspective compared to the other 42 or so states that aren't as gung-ho as yours.

Mentality is a bit different out here in the middle, out in those huge pastures where we're milking cows and watching the contrails of jets flying overhead at 35,000 ft. Yeah, Obama is extremely likable, I'll give you that. I like him, he is sharp and he is one sauve mf'er and I have NO doubt he could lead this country and lead it well. The problem is a question of trust. Most people out here in the middle don't trust him. They think he has a hidden agenda, however unfounded that may be. He just isn't ordinary enough, plain and simple, and "change" is fine, but lets hear some exact details, 'cause milkin cows still gets done essentially the same way as it used to.

[Who Shot Sam?]

WSS - you're in New England area somewhere, right? Totally skewed perspective compared to the other 42 or so states that aren't as gung-ho as yours.

Mentality is a bit different out here in the middle, out in those huge pastures where we're milking cows and watching the contrails of jets flying overhead at 35,000 ft. Yeah, Obama is extremely likable, I'll give you that. I like him, he is sharp and he is one sauve mf'er and I have NO doubt he could lead this country and lead it well. The problem is a question of trust. Most people out here in the middle don't trust him. They think he has a hidden agenda, however unfounded that may be. He just isn't ordinary enough, plain and simple, and "change" is fine, but lets hear some exact details, 'cause milkin cows still gets done essentially the same way as it used to.

I'm tired of being accused of East Coast elitism. I could drive five minutes from my house and milk a cow. We have those in New York State you know.

Maybe my perspective is skewed, just as yours might be skewed by being from the Midwest (I presume).

Obama has also offered plenty of constructive policy details. By contrast I haven't seen any of that from McCain - it's all fear-mongering and negative ads.

[Mr. Average]

Whether you agree or disagree with his conclusions, it's clear that he's done a lot of thinking about the topics, on his own, and not based on papers or thinking done by others.

I, too, have spent a lot of time 'thinking' and agonizing over issues. But I have no experience nor understanding of the methods that can convery that thinking into action that can impact global politics. I want someone willing to actually do something 'doable', not just nuance about the implications of it.

I appreciate your Biden commentary, Alexv. More blistering than I would have ever assessed. I see him as a Statesman, sort of like Teddy Kennedy. Granted, Teddy Kennedy is a misogynistic murderer responsible for literally distroying at least three womens lives. But he still is seen as a respected elder statesman, like Biden. So from where Obama sits, I see why he wanted him to comlement the ticket.

Mind boggling that he could have locked up the election with a Hillary nod. LOCKED IT. It just goes to show you how damaging the details are behind the Clintons. Too, too dangerous.

Now, he will almost assurredly lose