New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Pretty self-explanatory
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John
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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby John » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:22 am

I reckon John will be on his fourth listen now. Interesting titbits are always welcome!

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby supplydavid » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:51 am

John

congratulations, did you get the official release or track down one the never seen Record Store day copies?

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Neil. » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:03 pm

krm wrote:the table is not the same!


I hadn't noticed that before you mentioned it! So there are THREE whopping continuity errors! What's the final one?

In other news - John F, please give us your review! Even if it's only after one listen, we need to know first impressions!!! I implore you!!!

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby johnfoyle » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:34 pm

I think I was , indirectly, facilitated by EC's people. The offer of the disc, by a separate party, was just too tidy. Or maybe I'm watching/reading too many political dramas. Whatever - I got the disc!

After a few hours of it on random play at work I've had one listen at home with just a few distractions. It's a textured, multi-faceted album, repaying repeated listens. It's rich with references to EC's past work - it's fascinating to spotting them. There have been a few allusions to that in the few commentaries so far. The vast amount of them though makes me think this is nearly a in-joke by Elvis and the Roots. You could nearly imagine them grinning and wondering which one of us 'saddos' will spot such 'n such first. In, I think, the Mojo interview Elvis says/jokes that the Roots members know his past work better than him. It certainly shows. That's not to say the album is a rehash of past elements. At the least it's a redefinition - at best it's a vast improvement.

I could go on but will not , for now. Given my subjectivity I can't help but seeing the positive aspects. I really believe this project has , quite literally, 'sounds' that will appeal to a wide range of listeners. The trick will be getting their attention.

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Jack of All Parades » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:04 pm

johnfoyle wrote:I think I was , indirectly, facilitated by EC's people. The offer of the disc, by a separate party, was just too tidy. Or maybe I'm watching/reading too many political dramas. Whatever - I got the disc!

After a few hours of it on random play at work I've had one listen at home with just a few distractions. It's a textured, multi-faceted album, repaying repeated listens. It's rich with references to EC's past work - it's fascinating to spotting them. There have been a few allusions to that in the few commentaries so far. The vast amount of them though makes me think this is nearly a in-joke by Elvis and the Roots. You could nearly imagine them grinning and wondering which one of us 'saddos' will spot such 'n such first. In, I think, the Mojo interview Elvis says/jokes that the Roots members know his past work better than him. It certainly shows. That's not to say the album is a rehash of past elements. At the least it's a redefinition - at best it's a vast improvement.

I could go on but will not , for now. Given my subjectivity I can't help but seeing the positive aspects. I really believe this project has , quite literally, 'sounds' that will appeal to a wide range of listeners. The trick will be getting their attention.


Appetite sufficiently whetted- thank you :wink:
"....there's a merry song that starts in 'I' and ends in 'You', as many famous pop songs do....'

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby seanpointblank » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:14 pm

Can someone dress up in a cartoonish cat burglar outfit and "remove" this album from Mr. Foyle's home for us?

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Neil. » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:36 am

Oof, John - you've clipped my expectations somewhat! That's a good thing - they were too high. I knew there were going to be a few rehashes, but I was expecting only two. Now it sounds as though the whole thing isn't necessarily new songs, but remixes and reworkings. That's less welcome. But of course, I'll still get it - and my blunted expectations might cause me to be pleasantly surprised!

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby John » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:40 am

I will be interesting to see if promotional activity increases soon as Elvis finally stops touring today. I can't imagine he has been home (US/Canada) for quite some time.

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Top balcony » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:08 am

johnfoyle wrote: I got the disc!


fantastic John - all round to your place!!!!!!

Colin Top Balcony - with a keg of Red Barrel to get the party going with a swing

( for younger readers : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQLhfbBt1Lc )

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby John » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:27 am

Top balcony wrote:
johnfoyle wrote: I got the disc!


Colin Top Balcony - with a keg of Red Barrel to get the party going with a swing

( for younger readers : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQLhfbBt1Lc )


Now we know were the inspiration for the Walk Us Uptown video came from.

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby sweetest punch » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:53 pm

This blog contains an interview from August 7 in Monte Carlo: http://leblogdephilippedupuy.nicematin.com/
(Translation here: http://translate.google.be/translate?sl ... tin.com%2F )

Two interesting things about the new album and the Roots tour:

"Le son ne sera pas forcément celui du single. Toutes les chansons ne se ressemblent pas. Il y a un peu de tout, mais forcément, vue la façon dont ils travaillent, ça sonne plutôt hip hop et funk. Avec ma voix par dessus, ça reste du rock'n'roll, je suppose."

"The sound (of the new album) is not necessarily that of the single . All songs are not alike. There is a bit of everything, but inevitably, given the way they work, it sounds pretty hip hop and funk. With my voice above, it's still rock and roll, I guess."



"Tournerez-vous avec eux pour la sortie du nouvel album ?

Je ne sais pas si pas si on arrivera à planifier une tournée entière. Ils sont très pris, mais j'espère qu'on pourra quand même faire quelques shows ensemble. En attendant, je vais recommencer à tourner en solo aux Etats Unis en novembre."

"Will you tour with them for the new album?

I do not know if we'll be able to plan an entire tour together. They are very busy, but I hope we can still do some shows together. In the meantime, I will return to touring solo in the U.S. in November."
Since you put me down, it seems i've been very gloomy. You may laugh but pretty girls look right through me.

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Poor Deportee » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:58 pm

Neil. wrote:Oof, John - you've clipped my expectations somewhat! That's a good thing - they were too high. I knew there were going to be a few rehashes, but I was expecting only two. Now it sounds as though the whole thing isn't necessarily new songs, but remixes and reworkings. That's less welcome. But of course, I'll still get it - and my blunted expectations might cause me to be pleasantly surprised!


It's not clear to me from John's post that this CD is comprised of 'remixes and reworkings.' I'd understood John to be suggesting that the album references past work - not the same thing. Hopefully this is not a reprise of the first side of SP & S where old tunes are rehashed?
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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby cwr » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:09 pm

I'd say it sounds more akin to that there might be some "Glass Onion" style self-references (or like "She Loves You" at the end of "All You Need Is Love") than that it's remixes and re-workings.

It's not something that Costello's ever really done before, which means it's probably high time he did it, since he seems inclined to try everything at least once!

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Jack of All Parades » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:00 pm

Poor Deportee wrote:
Neil. wrote:Oof, John - you've clipped my expectations somewhat! That's a good thing - they were too high. I knew there were going to be a few rehashes, but I was expecting only two. Now it sounds as though the whole thing isn't necessarily new songs, but remixes and reworkings. That's less welcome. But of course, I'll still get it - and my blunted expectations might cause me to be pleasantly surprised!


It's not clear to me from John's post that this CD is comprised of 'remixes and reworkings.' I'd understood John to be suggesting that the album references past work - not the same thing. Hopefully this is not a reprise of the first side of SP & S where old tunes are rehashed?

cwr wrote:I'd say it sounds more akin to that there might be some "Glass Onion" style self-references (or like "She Loves You" at the end of "All You Need Is Love") than that it's remixes and re-workings.

It's not something that Costello's ever really done before, which means it's probably high time he did it, since he seems inclined to try everything at least once!


Exactly to both- there is no hint in Mr. Foyle's earlier comment on the record that the new record is in anyway a rehash-simply it would appear to be chock full of 'references' that should fill the musical listening time of obssesive listeners like Neil[and I include myself] for years to come. EC it would seem has finally created that work which will come close to approaching the old days of trash can conjectoring over old Dylan arcana. I anticipate this board parsing over the 'detria' for many a month and within many a thread. :wink:
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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby johnfoyle » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:12 pm

there is no hint in Mr. Foyle's earlier comment on the record that the new record is in anyway a rehash-simply it would appear to be chock full of 'references'


Thanks - I couldn't have put it better myself!

I'm not going to be making any other comment until more of us have heard the recordings. I've posted here about having them at this stage just so that , down the road, I won't have to seem a bit sneaky and say 'Well , guess what , I've had them for ages..' etc. It's simple as that.

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Poor Deportee » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:31 pm

The arcana can be fun, but I do hope it's not excessively self-referential. 'Glass Onion' is an example of this sort of move being carried to excess. Sure, that was, for Lennon, the whole point - to show up the absurdity of the obsessive fans - but the fact remains that that is just not a very good song, and part of the reason is that it doesn't stand up on its own apart from the references. If you just ask, "what is Strawberry Fields?" ...or "who's this Paul guy, then?" the whole thing falls apart. Or consider like the keyboard part to "National Ransom" - rehashing the riff off "You Belong to Me" isn't especially clever, nor does it salvage a basically mediocre track. Contrast these examples with Dylan's "Things Have Changed," a song that can certainly be read as a deliberate inversion of "The Times They Are A-Changin'" but remains a potent song whether or not you care about the referent. For a bad example of Dylanological self-referencing, check the invocation of "Sad Eyed Lady" in "Sara" - where it becomes a form of author intrusion ("wow, everybody, look how spectacularly I am dropping the mask!").

All a windy way of saying that if it's a fun "extra ingredient," that's great; if the songs draw their primary force from a self-indulgent game of "spot the references"...well then I'm agin it!!
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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Jack of All Parades » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:42 pm

What remains intriguing for me amongst all this anticipatory lead up to the record's release- is the off comment from Questlove, back ages ago it seems, that EC had gone all Ezra Pound in this new album- now suddenly the notion of a an album of lyrical self- references not unlike Pound's pastiche style in his Cantos seems less appealing- I hope it is not the case that the inspiration larder is running bare and that one needs now to cannibalize upon past work to infuse the lyric or melody with energy. Suddenly your imagining an album that is 'chock full' of such referents is equally a less than desirable notion for this listener, as well. :wink:
"....there's a merry song that starts in 'I' and ends in 'You', as many famous pop songs do....'

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby cwr » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:58 pm

I'd agree that "Glass Onion" is TOO self-referential and I hope WUG isn't that (I doubt it will be-- I sounds like the references are more meaningful-- "Invasion Hit Parade" is a fairly obscure deep cut to bring back now, so my assumption is that it has to do more with the message of the song still being relevant rather than some game of "spot the reference.")

I would disagree, however-- and I may be the only one on the board who does disagree-- with the popular notion that the title track on "National Ransom" is mediocre.

I must be the crazy one, though, because it seems like everyone hates that song. I think it's gotta be one of the most underrated things he's done, and I think the "You Belong To Me" reference is a nice touch that sort of served as a thematic undertow to the song's message of modern greed and corruption. Furthermore, I always felt like that song had a kind of Traveling Wilburys vibe to it, which I liked.

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Jack of All Parades » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:05 pm

This is closer to how I hope I experience the coming album, Uncle Walt being a better tonic for me than 'ole Ezra:

When I Heard the Learn’d Astronomer
By Walt Whitman


When I heard the learn’d astronomer,
When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me,
When I was shown the charts and diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them,
When I sitting heard the astronomer where he lectured with much applause in the lecture-room,
How soon unaccountable I became tired and sick,
Till rising and gliding out I wander’d off by myself,
In the mystical moist night-air, and from time to time,
Look’d up in perfect silence at the stars.
"....there's a merry song that starts in 'I' and ends in 'You', as many famous pop songs do....'

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby martinfoyle » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:30 pm

Gave the album the cranking-it-out-of-the-shitty-boombox-at-work test this evening and it passed with flying colours. Great piece of work, holds up all the way through. Think only hardcore fans will really notice the references to past works, which are obvious, -lovely bit of Satellite-, they're really just part of the wonderful sound picture. I'll leave it at that for now, but, rest assured, you're all in for a treat.

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Poor Deportee » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:19 pm

Jack of All Parades wrote:This is closer to how I hope I experience the coming album, Uncle Walt being a better tonic for me than 'ole Ezra:

When I Heard the Learn’d Astronomer
By Walt Whitman


When I heard the learn’d astronomer,
When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me,
When I was shown the charts and diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them,
When I sitting heard the astronomer where he lectured with much applause in the lecture-room,
How soon unaccountable I became tired and sick,
Till rising and gliding out I wander’d off by myself,
In the mystical moist night-air, and from time to time,
Look’d up in perfect silence at the stars.


A beautiful little poem - thanks for that. One of my favourites of his is "Sparkles from the Wheel," a similar exercise in sharp apercus that rises to the nearly metaphysical.

I'm reminded of Tolkien's distinction between allegory and applicability. The former, he asserted, resides in the tryanny of the author, while the latter rests in the response of the reader. Songs built as games of 'spot the reference' are akin to the former; songs that weave references in as part of a powerful stand-alone artefact, the latter. It's the difference between knowing postmodern smirk and meaningful self-aware expression.
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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Jeremy Dylan » Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:18 pm

cwr wrote:I would disagree, however-- and I may be the only one on the board who does disagree-- with the popular notion that the title track on "National Ransom" is mediocre.


I love National Ransom (the song) and Glass Onion is one of my favourite Beatles tunes.

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby Ymaginatif » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:58 am

'National Ransom' is a musical self-reference - also known as rehashing or, at the worst, plagiarism.

'Glass Onion' is a textual self-reference, which if you get it raises a smile. But it's carried by a killer song (check out those bass and drums + some excellent singing).

Very different kettles of very different fishes. :lol:
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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby John » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:02 am

martinfoyle wrote:Gave the album the cranking-it-out-of-the-shitty-boombox-at-work test this evening and it passed with flying colours. Great piece of work, holds up all the way through. Think only hardcore fans will really notice the references to past works, which are obvious, -lovely bit of Satellite-, they're really just part of the wonderful sound picture. I'll leave it at that for now, but, rest assured, you're all in for a treat.


Can't wait now. Great to hear the from the Foyle twins in stereo.

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Re: New album for 2013: "Wise Up Ghost" (with The Roots!)

Postby cwr » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:47 am

I'd also say the difference between "National Ransom" and "Glass Onion" is that the latter is more of a Novelty Song-- perhaps a "killer" one, but a novelty song nonetheless, definitely intended to raise a smile.

"National Ransom" does contain a musical self-reference, but I believe in this case it's impossible to define it as plagiarism since he's that would mean taking someone else's work and pretending it's his own. I'd say it's much closer to sampling, not unlike the kind of thing he's done all throughout his career-- Get Happy is loaded with little touches that he has outright lifted from other songs and re-purposed to make something new.

What he does in "National Ransom" is really no different than what he did with The Byrds' "I See You" when he wrote "Lipstick Vogue."

Tying this back to WUG, I'm trying to think of any other examples in his own career of musical self-reference. I mean, there are songs that have some similarities, I suppose-- I always felt like there was a connection between "Pump It Up" and "13 Steps Lead Down" but I don't know if it was intended (whereas "You Belong To Me" felt like it had a thematic purpose the way it was referenced in "National Ransom.")

Can anyone think of any other examples?


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