songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

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bambooneedle
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songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby bambooneedle » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:01 pm

Just off the top of my head...

Alison
Watching The Detectives
Pump It Up
(I Don't want To Go To) Chelsea
The Beat
Every Day I Write The Book
American Gangster Time
National Ransom
The Delivery Man
Sulphur To Sugarcane
The Long Honeymoon
Alibi

when i was cruel
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby when i was cruel » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:21 pm

That's a bold list... Explain please.
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby bronxapostle » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:34 pm

aw come on bamboo...how could you say??? sure, those of us who've seen him loads of times, kinda feel like we could do without one or more of what you've listed. but, it's NOT like you get the big four or five nightly. at least he is the kind of act who does omit detectives, alison, chelsea & everyday often enough and it's no big deal. even pump & plu will be left out once in a blue. now as far as some of your others...THE BEAT would surely be welcome by me as it is about 15 years i think since i've seen it live. and most of the others are too new to have become offensive at all. and ALIBI is welcome anytime i'm in the house! but, to each his own....thanks for sharing.

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby Miclewis » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:26 pm

I can agree on some of these songs. It is getting difficult to do Alison in a new way.

But having recently seen Elvis live, I must say that Watching the Detectives still has some life in it. And, Alibi was great live; I forgot how good the song was.

Sulphur To Sugarcane suffers from the same problem as Voice in the Dark - just too long and rambling. Sulphur To Sugarcane was so much better when it was less than 3 minutes in Bridgeport when I saw him open for Bob Dylan.

I get a little tired of Radio Radio, Chelsea, The Beat, and You Belong to Me in concert. However, I never tire of Pump It Up for some reason.

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby bronxapostle » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:30 pm

come on..these two (The Beat, and You Belong to Me) are NOT played that often at all. one can always stay home if they don't WANT to see certain songs played live! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby Jeremy Dylan » Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:56 pm

Sulphur to Sugarcane was a highlight of the three shows I've seen him play it at. And which version of NR are you talking about? I'm fond of all of them.

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby Natasha » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:29 pm

WHAT?

Wait... I've never seen Elvis in concert and I would be extremely happy to watch him perform any and every song that he wanted. But please sing Alison! I think I would be very disapointed if he removes Alison from the set list. It's not on my favourites list at all but, come on, it's a classic!

Although most of the songs you listed are on my favourites list I could live without them. I know it's a bit contradictory but I just can't imagine an Elvis Costello concert without Alison. Something would be missing.
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby the_platypus » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:15 pm

bambooneedle wrote:Just off the top of my head...

Alison
Watching The Detectives
Pump It Up
(I Don't want To Go To) Chelsea
The Beat
Every Day I Write The Book
American Gangster Time
National Ransom
The Delivery Man
Sulphur To Sugarcane
The Long Honeymoon
Alibi

I only support "The Delivery Man" because the song is a bit of a drag. Everything else? No way.

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby Natasha » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:07 am

the_platypus wrote:I only support "The Delivery Man" because the song is a bit of a drag. Everything else? No way.


Am I the only one who loves The Delivery Man, not only the song but the entire album? :roll:
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby verbal gymnastics » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:56 am

Whilst I have heard these songs many times over the years I don't think they should be retired. I thought Alison and Pump it up should have been in the beard years as they sounded very tired but not now. They are old songs but, like many others, are periodically reinvented.

Many of his other songs are left for a few years/tours but then turn up one night and for one night only just to show that there's life in them.
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby SoulForHire » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:18 am

I cannot think of a single song that needs to be retired. What if you see EC for the first and only time ever and he doesn't play, let's say, Pump It Up because he played it for some many OTHER people? That'd suck.

EC can't play just for his faithful.

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby Natasha » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:27 am

SoulForHire wrote:What if you see EC for the first and only time ever and he doesn't play, let's say, Pump It Up because he played it for some many OTHER people? That'd suck.


Exactly. You just said what I wanted to say in better words.

Besides Alison, Pump it Up is my most awaited moment of the EC's show that I will certainly attend one day.(I'm a believer)
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby Poor Deportee » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:37 am

Hard-core fans of every musician - at least, those whose obsession carries over into compiling vast libraries of bootlegs, tracking each live performance, going to endless shows, etc. - so often fall into this trap of getting bored with the Greatest Hits and wanting set-lists comprised of rarities. Understandable, I suppose, but also fairly absurd. Each artist is playing for the audience at hand, and that audience will be a mixed bag of old and new and casual and hard-core fans. A smart set-list will have something for each element. If you find yourself tired of hearing the Moudly Oldies then this is perhaps best understood as a sign of your own over-exposure, not a meaningful criticism of the artist or the songs being played.
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby bronxapostle » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:54 am

Poor Deportee wrote:Hard-core fans of every musician - at least, those whose obsession carries over into compiling vast libraries of bootlegs, tracking each live performance, going to endless shows, etc. - so often fall into this trap of getting bored with the Greatest Hits and wanting set-lists comprised of rarities. Understandable, I suppose, but also fairly absurd. Each artist is playing for the audience at hand, and that audience will be a mixed bag of old and new and casual and hard-core fans. A smart set-list will have something for each element. If you find yourself tired of hearing the Moudly Oldies then this is perhaps best understood as a sign of your own over-exposure, not a meaningful criticism of the artist or the songs being played.


PERFECTLY STATED PD! as i said above...one can always stay home if they don't WANT to see certain songs played live! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby stricttime81 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:54 pm

I also love the Delivery Man, both the song and the album. Granted, it is a "mood" song, so he needs to pick his spots for it.

If I had to pick one to be retired, I guess I would pick Pump It Up. He really doesn't even seem to enjoy playing it anymore. I did love the 6/8 version though, transitioning into Busted.
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby verbal gymnastics » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:20 pm

Elvis keeps local fans happy. He almost ALWAYS plays Psycho in Glasgow, he'll play Shipbuilding, Oliver's Army in London etc.

But he'll also slip in some gems for the diehards - King of Confidence and Point of no return in England last year.
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby strangerinthehouse » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:30 pm

I thought The Delivery Man and Everyday I Write the Book were amazing during the Sugarcanes tour. The Delivery Man was a much more captivating performance than the original. Everyday was breathtaking, completely different and beautifully enhanced by the sugarcanes' harmony vocals.

When I last saw him live during that tour, I actually left early during the last song - Peace, Love and Understanding - because I have heard it done so many times, it's not one of my favorites and I wanted to make sure I took a spot near the tour bus to meet him. So yes I can do without that song, and I'm surprised it wasn't on the list that started this thread, but I know that just like Alison and Radio, Radio it will always be in the set list.

I wouldn't miss Pump it Up and Chelsea if they weren't played.
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby Natasha » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:36 pm

This version of Everyday I Write the Book you're talking about is like this one here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acH7hanhcL8
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby migdd » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:37 pm

What's the sense of retiring songs if you have the imagination to rework them into new and interesting arrangements?

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby docinwestchester » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:01 am

Natasha wrote:This version of Everyday I Write the Book you're talking about is like this one here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acH7hanhcL8


I think this is more like it:

http://vimeo.com/30414384

Much slower version

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby bambooneedle » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:29 am

A bit of research reveals that there are TONS of songs that Elvis has retired, so to those suggesting that the idea of retiring songs is blasphemy or something, or that there is no reason for it, observe some facts. I had a look at a few albums on the wiki site:

ARMED FORCES (1979)

Song...................Last Played

Senior Service.......... 1979
Big Boys.................. 1999
Goon Squad..............1984
Busy Bodies..............1979
Sunday's Best...........1978
Moods For Moderns....1980
Chemistry Class.........1979
Two Little Hitlers........1981

For the songs not listed (Accidents Will Happen, Oliver's Army, Green Shirt, Party Girl, PLU) there is no information. It seems whoever updates it suspects they could be played again. So it's not clear if EC already has given up on Party Girl as well, in the case of AF.


BLOOD AND CHOCOLATE (1986)

Tokyo Storm Warning............................2002
Home Is Anywhere You Hang Your Head....2002
Battered Old Bird..................................1987
Poor Napoleon.....................................2004

The first 3 are probably definite retirees, with several semi-retirees for B&C. I Hope You're Happy Now is about the only definite stayer.


MIGHTY LIKE A ROSE (1991)

How To Be Dumb...........2004
Harpies Bizzare..............1991
After The Fall................1991
Georgie And Her Rival......1991
Playboy To A Man..........1991
Sweet Pear...................2004
Broken.........................1991 (played only once)

Most likely reappearers: So Like Candy, Couldn't Call It Unexpected No4, The Other Side Of Summer.

Probable retirees: Hurry Down Doomsday, All Grown Up, INvasion Hit Parade, (including semi-retirees How To Be Dumb, Sweet Pear).

There is far less 'when song last played' information supplied for the 90's and 00's albums than for the others, but here are some of the likely retired songs from BY, ATUB & WIWC. There is almost no "song last performed on..." dates for the Momofuku, SP&S & National Ransom albums, and it's safe to say that EC will not play most of Painted From Memory, For The Stars, North, or The River In Reverse albums ever again.


song............................last played

BRUTAL YOUTH (1994)
Pony St.........................1994
This Is Hell.....................2003
20% Amnesia..................1994
My Science Fiction Twin...1994
Just About Glad..............2004
All The Rage...................2005
Favourite Hour................2006

ALL THIS USELESS BEAUTY (1996)
Little Atoms.................2003
Distorted angel.............2005
Shallow Grave...............1999
I want To Vanish...........2004
It's Time......................1996
My Dark Life.................2003

WHEN I WAS CRUEL (2002)
When I was Cruel No2........2006
Soul For Hire ....................2002
15 Petals..........................2002
Dust To... & ..Dust ...........2006
Dissolve............................2007
My Little Blue Window..........2002

Several more of the songs on these albums are probably as unlikely to ever be played again.

Just out of interest I also checked out GCW and KOA:

GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD (1984)

The Only Flame In Town.......1987
Home Truth........................2004
Room With No Number..........1984
Worthless Thing..................1984
I Wanna Be Loved...............2004
The Comedians...................1987
Joe Porterhouse..................1984
Sour Milk Cow Blues.............1984
The Great Unknown.............2001
The Deportees Club.............1984
Peace In Our Time...............2005


KING OF AMERICA (1986)

I'll Wear It Proudly...........2002
Glitter Gulch...................1987
Lovable.........................1989
Eisenhower Blues.............none
Jack Of All Parades..........1987

hmmmm.....

Elvis is obviously never going to retire Pump It Up, Alison, et al. The amount of cheques that they regularly provide him and showers of applause are enough to keep him intoxicatedly enthused about playing them.

But, having quite a finite amount of time to get around to check out bootlegs, I wish he would at least semi-retire them. Like not play too many of such songs too often. Perhaps they could be given the parts-of-combined-in-a-medley treatment, or EC could say, "Hey Davey, tonight you go completely apeshit on Pump It Up, ok?".

when i was cruel wrote:please explain


Every Day I Write The Book... don't like how sugary he has made it with the excuse that Ron Sexsmith retaught him how to play it. I do very much like the studio recording, however.

Alison... most fail to see that it is a very creepy song that Elvis accidentally made into a hit.

Sulphur To Sugarcane... it was alright to begin with but its amusingness has expired like a bad joke retold over and over again. I MUCH prefer Down Among The Wines And Spirits, by way of comparison.

The Long Honeymoon.... Elvis delighting in scaring insecure women, which is largely why it has gone past its use-by date. And the vocal delivery (in the deep parts "when he's out on a date..." ) sounds like he is mocking Elvis Presley.

The Delivery Man... yeah it's kind of boring. Its sense of forbodingness and intrigue left us all hanging since Elvis didn't continue on with the original TDM theme and characters in subsequent work as promised. Love the album though.

Far be it from me to really suggest to EC what he should do about anything, this is more about fans' wishes. What about predicting which songs from recent albums he WILL retire?

I don't know that rearrangements will really guarrantee that a song will be more interesting. Notable experiments like the one for Accidents Will Happen ("the arranger, Steve Nieve") and the Brodsky's Pills And Soap were more novel than really captivating. I much prefered seeing Our Little Angel stripped to just voice and guitar on his 2009 solo tour. Highlight of the night.


Jeremy Dylan, I would probably only be interested in hearing any other version of National Ransom the song if it is so completely rewritten that I can't recognizable it as coming from the original. Is this what EC has attempted to do?

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby SoulForHire » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:28 am

When you said "retired," I think "songs that have been played so much that they have worn out their welcome."

I don't think that simply because you no longer play a deep cut off an album after that album's initial supporting tour that you can consider that song "retired" because it was never a song likely to be played much anyway,

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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby Natasha » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:31 am

Armed Forces is one of my favourite albums but I think its songs don't fit very well in the mood of his shows nowadays and they are not easy to rework (Goon Squad, for example.). Some of them are too dramatical (Chemistry Class) or too New Wave in a way that could be kinda ridiculous if he played today. So I'm fine with the fact that those songs you listed were retired and I think there's good reason for that.

The 90's and 00's works I think they are more experimental. In fact Brutal Youth and When I Was Cruel are weird albums, irregular, you know? In this case, I think he chose wisely too. All This Useless Beauty is... well... let's say...boring. :) I don't like Mighty so I don't have an opinion about it.

For King of America and B&C, I agree that it's a pity he retired those songs you listed. Good sugestions for a posible jackpot, maybe. But I do confide in his ability of entertain us and give the audience what it wants.

I wish I was tired of hearing this or that song but this is not going to happen in a close future.
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby Natasha » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:47 am

docinwestchester wrote:
Natasha wrote:This version of Everyday I Write the Book you're talking about is like this one here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acH7hanhcL8


I think this is more like it:

http://vimeo.com/30414384

Much slower version


Well, I must confess I didn't like this song when I first heard it. I kinda discovered it later and "learnt" to appreciate it. But I love so much that version from Tim Festival! I think that arrangment fits in the lyrics so well. It gave the song the tenderness that were missing in the original version.

I like Ron Sexsmith's interpretation of it too (and Elvis's version after that) but, for me, there's no way to compare it with the 2005 version.

By the way, Doc, your channel is perfect. Be it on youtube, vimeo or whatever. :)
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Re: songs Elvis should retire (if he hasn't already)

Postby strangerinthehouse » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:28 pm

docinwestchester wrote:
Natasha wrote:This version of Everyday I Write the Book you're talking about is like this one here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acH7hanhcL8


I think this is more like it:

http://vimeo.com/30414384

Much slower version


Thanks Doc, that's exactly the version that I was thinking of. Though I also love the version Natasha posted, much more than the original.
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