'The Return Of The Spectacular Spinning Songbook', Nov. '11

[wardo68]

What kills me (outside of this month's Red Sox collapse, but nobody cares) is that Elvis has been complaining about his current record label -- and there have been a few -- for over 25 years, and yet he keeps giving himself up to be marketed by whichever one is offering to sponsor him that week. I say again (and again and again) that if he sold his music through his own portal, whether it be a new album or souvenirs from the latest tour or ballet score he's written, we'd buy it and he'd get the money. But instead, by having a label to blame for any release's inevitable lack of performance to anyone outside his fan base (read: anyone on this forum) he has something to complain about.

I would love to have what this Songbook package threatens to be. But my petty cash says otherwise. I don't know who he's trying to appeal to anymore, outside of Lorenzo the dentist and his ilk.

[MOJO]

You fiend, MOJO. Is 11 higher than 10? My competitive nature is becoming challenged, buddy.

It's one more than 10, it's 11.

Every serious fan should buy this deluxe box set. Support the man. For me, it's about supporting the artist. It's not about stealing or undermining the value of the product. It's easy for anyone to download the content for free, but if you're a serious fan, you should buy the product out of respect for the artist. So, I will drop the coinage for this release and look forward to receiving it.

MOJO

[strangerinthehouse]

I don't think you can reasonably compare the U2 and Bowie packages to Costello's set. Economy of scale. Because Costello is, at this point, a cult musician, he's probably selling a minuscule fraction of what U2, Bowie or Pixies are of their sets. You buy in bulk, you get cheaper product, and there aren't near enough "deluxe boxed set" fans for EC to buy this in bulk.

Could this be cheaper? Yeah, of course it could. I just question how much. And beyond that, I question why anyone would care either way, really.

Right, and because he's a cult musician this sort of thing seems like a mistake or at least a misconception of EC's fan base. The amount of people willing to pay more than $300 dollars for a Costello release is probably much smaller than those spending $400-plus for U2 or even the Pixies set. So why make it so much, considering that most of the people who would want to buy this have either already seen the show live (and paid handsomely for it) or are the few fans who would like to have everything he's ever released (whether they can afford it, is another question)

Even though Bowie is so huge, he still made a set with tons of stuff with a reasonable price, maybe even too reasonable. I can also see how the U2 set can cost more than $400 because you get so much for it, even Bono's glasses!

This spinning songbook set could have easily been between $160-$200.

And yes, it really is trivial when it comes to down to it and I probably wouldn't give this much thought if it was someone else's overpriced set. My gripe with it is that it's a shitty trend I never thought that one of my favorite artists would be participating in. It's a disappointment.

Oh well.

[jardine]

"Could this be cheaper? Yeah, of course it could. I just question how much. And beyond that, I question why anyone would care either way, really."

Because this is a stupid thing to do. Because it didn't used to be like this. Because i thought he was better than this. Because he keeps acting like a helpless child re: record companies and their hi jinks. Because his complaining about all that is becoming quite disingenuous. Because he's pricing himself out of reach and is gong to hurt himself and have less flexibility in the future. Because his usually-held-in-check tendency to be a petulant and condescending snob seems to be getting the better of him and it is an unnecessary and ugly trait. Because he could easily do it differently and be happier about the results. Because he could make more money and have more freedom to venture even further than he has. Because the next time he starts complaining, he is going to look extremely stupid and unaware of the consequences of his own actions. Because I love the guy and want something better than this for him and, frankly, for me. Because he is fabulous and should be SOARING and he seems to be undercutting himself again. Because i think he has a skewed understanding of the relationship between his talent, his reputation, and his popularity and it seems to be screwing him up and pissing him off instead of making him act more sensibly. Because he should let all that go and find better channels and we'll be with him all the way. Because he could easily release material without hesitation in formats that are more profitable for him, better and more accessible for us, and able to open up his much beloved freedom to venture even more spectacularly, take more risks if he wants to, and still survive well as a great artist. Because sadly I'm starting to think that sometimes this undercutting is on purpose. Because ...well, there's a few.

[the_platypus]

So, a bunch of reasons based almost entirely on some misplaced sense of personal kinship?

The man is a musician. He is entitled to put a product out in the market and price it however he chooses. To "expect better of him" because he "could be happier" if he did things your way is a little presumptuous, and that post sounds a little like what I'd expect to hear from an idolater scorned.

Is it because I've only been a fan for 5 or so years that I'm stuck with this nagging impression that... gee, EC doesn't really owe me anything?

[jardine]

where did i EVER say he wasn't ENTITLED to do whatever he wants? of course he is. I thought i was talking about how he has, over and over again and publicly, the mess of record companies and how this new release might be cue-ing off once again the very things that he himself has said he wants to escape.

But that is just me talking out of my scorned love,vright? ok, so, i give up. he can do anything he wants. so can you. so can i. end of discussion. what i intended to be attempts to think about what the hell is going on with this artist that i admire... are just so much idiot wind. Thank you for your "idolator scorned" and "misplaced personal kinship" psychoanalysis (you can do it about me and escape presumptuousness, but I speculate about e.c. and you get to call me presumptuous). THAT'S presumptuous.

So instead of ad hominem arguments, tell me how it is wrong about the topic of the thread--this new release and what it means or indicates about this musician ("the man is a musician"--thanks for that!). If every time something occurs all anyone can say is "he is entitled do whatever he wants," we might as well shut down the board. What about the fact that he did THIS? Elvis has talked about his unhappiness with record companies over and over and over again, and yet he seems to keep doing things that make that situation worse, not better. He has talked about wanting get music out differently over and over again. I'm not presuming this. I'm just trying to think through: given these concerns, why release THIS?

[And No Coffee Table]

Amazon seems to have pulled the super deluxe edition. There's no longer a price or preorder button, just an option to be notified when it's available.

[Jack of All Parades]

where did i EVER say he wasn't ENTITLED to do whatever he wants? of course he is. I thought i was talking about how he has, over and over again and publicly, the mess of record companies and how this new release might be cue-ing off once again the very things that he himself has said he wants to escape.

But that is just me talking out of my scorned love,vright? ok, so, i give up. he can do anything he wants. so can you. so can i. end of discussion. what i intended to be attempts to think about what the hell is going on with this artist that i admire... are just so much idiot wind. Thank you for your "idolator scorned" and "misplaced personal kinship" psychoanalysis (you can do it about me and escape presumptuousness, but I speculate about e.c. and you get to call me presumptuous). THAT'S presumptuous.

So instead of ad hominem arguments, tell me how it is wrong about the topic of the thread--this new release and what it means or indicates about this musician ("the man is a musician"--thanks for that!). If every time something occurs all anyone can say is "he is entitled do whatever he wants," we might as well shut down the board. What about the fact that he did THIS? Elvis has talked about his unhappiness with record companies over and over and over again, and yet he seems to keep doing things that make that situation worse, not better. He has talked about wanting get music out differently over and over again. I'm not presuming this. I'm just trying to think through: given these concerns, why release THIS?

Jardine-I am with you on this. Sad to see your attempt to 'think' through something be met with derision. Unfortunately, it happens too often here. I, too, have found myself wondering how an artist so usually deft at the right note, melody or word or phrase can too often be so apparantly tone deaf when it comes to marketing. Given the economic morass that is enveloping a good part of the world one would think he would be thinking outside of the box as to getting his new product out and with a heightened sensitivity to the economic constraints most people feel these days [I noted your earlier suggestion that a certain head be 'shopped' onto the rapacious lupine of the recent album cover and had a chuckle.]. I have been immersed in the new album by Wilco, released on Tuesday. They readily come to mind, along with Radiohead, as viable artists who have figured out how to free themselves from the old models; reinventing themselves through their own self-promotion- even giving free or strongly lower priced product to their audience. Why he does not pursue it I am at a loss to discern. You rightly note that his marketing tone deafness may well be a pattern that can be observed throughout his long career. I applaud your questioning thoughts on this matter. It merits discussion, not derision.

[the_platypus]

No derision intended; English is not my first language and I'm sometimes awkward in my wording. What I meant to say was that the reasons you list in your post seem to all be rooted in a personal kinship ("I love him and want better for him") rather than anything practical. Taking this release as a personal affront. I don't get that.

As for the practical side of it;

So instead of ad hominem arguments, tell me how it is wrong about the topic of the thread--this new release and what it means or indicates about this musician ("the man is a musician"--thanks for that!). If every time something occurs all anyone can say is "he is entitled do whatever he wants," we might as well shut down the board. What about the fact that he did THIS? Elvis has talked about his unhappiness with record companies over and over and over again, and yet he seems to keep doing things that make that situation worse, not better. He has talked about wanting get music out differently over and over again. I'm not presuming this. I'm just trying to think through: given these concerns, why release THIS?

I think the disconnect comes from the fact that I fail to understand how this release "makes the situation worse". Maybe if this was a little clearer to me, I could understand your point of view. As it stands, I see it as completely harmless release, targeted towards a very specific portion of his fanbase-- the fringe of the fringe, as it were.

If this were a standard DVD set that was grossly overpriced, perhaps I would agree with you. But it's a "super ultra mega deluxe collector's edition". I honestly don't see the harm.

[jardine]

does costello have a "manager" anymore? they can sometimes be of absolutely no help in such matters, but sometimes they can provide that distance and guidance that would encourage untangling this nest and setting up something long standing, simple, reliable and strong. from the outside, given how brilliant and respected and admired he is, it seems like he should be able to embrace any venture he can imagine without jeopardy, financial or otherwise, without a second thought, where availability and accessibility are no longer an issue or a worry.

He really is one of very few artists where I wish it was possible for some one or some company or some online or other arrangement, to say "go ahead. Whatever. Whenever. We've got you covered." Not only do I wish this (being a fanboy, apparently), but I also think that the world of music would be greatly enhanced--he has proven this fact so often, it is already quite astounding.

[MOJO]

It's a super ultra mega release, sign me up for that hunk of loot. I'm buying 20 copies... Yay, Elvis rules! He will be missed at Hardly Strictly Bluegrass this year.

[the_platypus]

It's a super ultra mega release, sign me up for that hunk of loot. I'm buying 20 copies... Yay, Elvis rules! He will be missed at Hardly Strictly Bluegrass this year.

I can't tell shtick from reality anymore. Is this what they call "internet fatigue"?

[jardine]

i'm worried that there isn't any difference any more! now THAT is really serious internet fatigue! oh, and, in reality, sorry for anything over the top I may have said before...

[fred darden]

doesn't he know aimee mann? yes. hasn't she developed her own cottage industry and sells all her stuff indepently? no more middlemen. i thought this was the direction ec was headed. jardine and platypus both have intelligent positions but, you can't please everyone. platypus, i've been a fan since 1977 and sorry, i feel i'm getting a long hard shafting here.

[MOJO]

long hard shaft... well, hello. I still plan on buying it.

[jardine]

and, well, I, too, have my "mojo," so to speak, "workin'" and will see your meager 11 and raise you 13 beach boy smile boxes (incidentally, available at 103 dollars on amazon.ca. Get yours today!!!)!

your move!

[sulky lad]

I'd like to announce that the super-deluxe live in Amsterdam audio bootleg about to be issued shortly after the 10th November and featuring VG in a tiger-skin loin cloth prancing around the streets of Amsterdam will be a extra super deluxe version with a cut away sleeve and pop-up features so you see VG in real 3 D and will retailing for about $500 dollars with the first purchased copy having a pair of John Foyle's 1972 NHS specs (as a counter signature to where early EC came from) and perhaps it'll be on dime for nothing too- damn must get myself a manager !

[bronxapostle]

you know sulky, maybe that is a good way to view this mess. let's reflect on all the shows we get to hear for free thanks to all the tapers, and just plop down our big bucks and enjoy what should be a stellar package! make sense to anybody here???

[fred darden]

ba, i'm happy for you that you can afford it. alas, some of us can't.

[jardine]

ha! even the price has disappeared from amazon.com

curiouser and curiosusuuuiouer

[docinwestchester]

ha! even the price has disappeared from amazon.com

curiouser and curiosusuuuiouer

Does EC read this board?

[the_platypus]

Friends, it's time I clue you in. I... am Elvis Costello.

[bronxapostle]

ba, i'm happy for you that you can afford it. alas, some of us can't.

afford it Fred??? yeah, the AMERICAN way maybe: ON CREDIT! thousands upon thousands in credit card debt will NOT be affected greatly by another $300! the household income here does not approach 100K!

[docinwestchester]

Friends, it's time I clue you in. I... am Elvis Costello.

Aren't you on stage right now? Impressive...

[Kevin Davis]

Provided this ends up being a legitimate thing, I suspect a more standard edition at a reasonable price will emerge as the release date nears. Though I couldn't say why, it seems not uncommon for Amazon to have wacky information about future releases whose information may not have been finalized yet.