Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Pretty self-explanatory
johnfoyle
Posts: 14579
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:37 pm
Location: Dublin , Ireland

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby johnfoyle » Wed May 19, 2010 6:53 am


martybaram
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:10 am

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby martybaram » Wed May 19, 2010 8:20 am

migdd wrote:
martybaram wrote:WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! WHY WOULD A HASBEEN SINGER-WHO REALLY NOBODY WANTS TO SEE-CANCEL A SHOW BECAUSE OF "POLITICAL REASONS"?

ELVIS...YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE...STAY AT HOME YOU LOSER...YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ALL AND ISRAEL HAS GAINED BY NOT HAVING A TWIT LIKE YOU HERE



Go away, dufus.

MODERATOR!!!!!!!!


I am not at all surprised at your comment "Mr. Moderator". You and your anti semitic "politically sensitive" has-been performer can go suck yourselves-Israel gained by not having this garbage in the country

yaniv297
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:42 am

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby yaniv297 » Wed May 19, 2010 8:29 am

MOJO wrote:It looks like everyone is turning this into a political issue. If I were in EC's shoes, I would have canceled, too, for the mere fact that, well, people simply get on my nerves. I'm not being insensitive to the people of Palestine, I'm just saying that all this build up and pressure to not perform in Israel would have gotten on my last nerve and I would have said, "You know what.. **CK it! I could use a few extra days of a vacation with my family." Whatever, I guess I can chalk up this post to PMS. Now I have a hankering for hummus... gotta go.


Elvis should have expected the outrage - every artist who comes here experience it. Before Leonard Cohen came here, there was an small demonstration against the show near the venue he played in Berlin. LC ignored it, played here, gave an amazing show and even quoted the bible (in hebrew!). Paul McCartney had threats on his life (!!!), but he still came, gave a non-political but really fun concert and talked a lot of hebrew. Costello should have ignored it just like everyone else did.

This desicion should be taken more seriously than "I want days off", as whether or not EC means it, it is widely interpreted as an anti-israeli statement.

martybaram wrote:WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! WHY WOULD A HASBEEN SINGER-WHO REALLY NOBODY WANTS TO SEE-CANCEL A SHOW BECAUSE OF "POLITICAL REASONS"?

ELVIS...YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE...STAY AT HOME YOU LOSER...YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ALL AND ISRAEL HAS GAINED BY NOT HAVING A TWIT LIKE YOU HERE


Ignore him, I find it rather sad that an Israeli would actually join the message board for that. Go watch Kobi Perez instead. טוב לראות שאתה עוזר לדימוי הישראלי בחו"ל

martybaram
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:10 am

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby martybaram » Wed May 19, 2010 10:10 am

yaniv297 wrote:
MOJO wrote:It looks like everyone is turning this into a political issue. If I were in EC's shoes, I would have canceled, too, for the mere fact that, well, people simply get on my nerves. I'm not being insensitive to the people of Palestine, I'm just saying that all this build up and pressure to not perform in Israel would have gotten on my last nerve and I would have said, "You know what.. **CK it! I could use a few extra days of a vacation with my family." Whatever, I guess I can chalk up this post to PMS. Now I have a hankering for hummus... gotta go.


Elvis should have expected the outrage - every artist who comes here experience it. Before Leonard Cohen came here, there was an small demonstration against the show near the venue he played in Berlin. LC ignored it, played here, gave an amazing show and even quoted the bible (in hebrew!). Paul McCartney had threats on his life (!!!), but he still came, gave a non-political but really fun concert and talked a lot of hebrew. Costello should have ignored it just like everyone else did.

This desicion should be taken more seriously than "I want days off", as whether or not EC means it, it is widely interpreted as an anti-israeli statement.

martybaram wrote:WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! WHY WOULD A HASBEEN SINGER-WHO REALLY NOBODY WANTS TO SEE-CANCEL A SHOW BECAUSE OF "POLITICAL REASONS"?

ELVIS...YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE...STAY AT HOME YOU LOSER...YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ALL AND ISRAEL HAS GAINED BY NOT HAVING A TWIT LIKE YOU HERE


Ignore him, I find it rather sad that an Israeli would actually join the message board for that. Go watch Kobi Perez instead. טוב לראות שאתה עוזר לדימוי הישראלי בחו"ל


I am not going to even qualify with an answer-you are simply a bunch of loser groupies-get a life and go blow-and if I were you, I would worry about the way YOU look as an Israeli/Jew in the diaspora you hypocrite

snapyou
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 2:55 pm
Location: Edinburgh,Scotland

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby snapyou » Wed May 19, 2010 10:14 am

martybaram wrote:WHAT AN OUTRAGE!!! WHY WOULD A HASBEEN SINGER-WHO REALLY NOBODY WANTS TO SEE-CANCEL A SHOW BECAUSE OF "POLITICAL REASONS"?

ELVIS...YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE...STAY AT HOME YOU LOSER...YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO ALL AND ISRAEL HAS GAINED BY NOT HAVING A TWIT LIKE YOU HERE


[/quote]

You should be happy that he's decided not to play in Israel but your comments suggest you're not.

User avatar
the_platypus
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby the_platypus » Wed May 19, 2010 10:31 am

:lol: this Marty Baram character is hilarious

martybaram
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:10 am

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby martybaram » Wed May 19, 2010 11:08 am

the_platypus wrote::lol: this Marty Baram character is hilarious



Guess what losers????? You cannot solve the Middle East conflict by some two bit loser singer canceling his show in Israel...get a life and learn a little bit about Middle Eastern politics

User avatar
the_platypus
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby the_platypus » Wed May 19, 2010 12:45 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

alexv
Posts: 772
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: USA

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby alexv » Wed May 19, 2010 1:19 pm

What strikes me about all this is the language EC uses in his withdrawal post. He says:

"One lives in hope that music is more than mere noise, filling up idle time, whether intending to elate or lament."

Right off the bat, he's saying, look, music should be about more than just the melodies, the song structure etc, the merits of the musical performance that night. It should have resonance outside of the music itself.

He then summarizes the two positions in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and makes a point of emphasizing their complexity and the ferocity of both sides.

So why is he withdrawing? Because...

"If these subjects are actually too grave and complex to be addressed in a concert, then it is also quite impossible to simply look the other way."

He has said that music, for him, should be about more than just music. By choosing to play in Israel, where the political is inescapable, and the political is all about these intractable Israeli/Palestinian issues where it is impossible for an outsider/musican to choose a side, the concert must, by definition, end up being all about the "music".

Elton or McCartney clearly don't have a problem with this. For them it's all about the music, divorced from the politics. For EC, that approach would, in ordinary circumstances, not be the preferred option in any case. But here, it would be catastrophic because it would be akin to playing the fiddle while Rome burns. For a performer like him, ignoring the non-musical side of things, in Israel of all places, would be criminal. He's not just some rock and roll guy who's all about the music. When he comes to your town to play he's not there just to sing in a vacumn. Where you live, how you live, what your culture is about matters, and connects to what he has to say musically. And a decision to play may be viewed, even if incorrectly, as a de facto statement about his views on the conflict. Rome is not in fact burning so why not play the fiddle?

And so:

"Sometimes a silence in music is better than adding to the static and so an end to it".

Based on these premises, and following this line of argument, I think he did the right thing. Now, if he got an invite to play in Cuba, say, I would expect him, using the same line of reasoning, to also decline to play. I suspect he would play, and if he does, I will argue that he's not being consistent, and his act would then be a political one. But let's wait on that one.

sabreman
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:29 pm

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby sabreman » Wed May 19, 2010 2:01 pm

I have no dog in this fight but EC should have never agreed to play in the first place.

yaniv297
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:42 am

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby yaniv297 » Wed May 19, 2010 2:16 pm

alexv wrote:What strikes me about all this is the language EC uses in his withdrawal post. He says:

"One lives in hope that music is more than mere noise, filling up idle time, whether intending to elate or lament."

Right off the bat, he's saying, look, music should be about more than just the melodies, the song structure etc, the merits of the musical performance that night. It should have resonance outside of the music itself.

He then summarizes the two positions in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, and makes a point of emphasizing their complexity and the ferocity of both sides.

So why is he withdrawing? Because...

"If these subjects are actually too grave and complex to be addressed in a concert, then it is also quite impossible to simply look the other way."

He has said that music, for him, should be about more than just music. By choosing to play in Israel, where the political is inescapable, and the political is all about these intractable Israeli/Palestinian issues where it is impossible for an outsider/musican to choose a side, the concert must, by definition, end up being all about the "music".

Elton or McCartney clearly don't have a problem with this. For them it's all about the music, divorced from the politics. For EC, that approach would, in ordinary circumstances, not be the preferred option in any case. But here, it would be catastrophic because it would be akin to playing the fiddle while Rome burns. For a performer like him, ignoring the non-musical side of things, in Israel of all places, would be criminal. He's not just some rock and roll guy who's all about the music. When he comes to your town to play he's not there just to sing in a vacumn. Where you live, how you live, what your culture is about matters, and connects to what he has to say musically. And a decision to play may be viewed, even if incorrectly, as a de facto statement about his views on the conflict. Rome is not in fact burning so why not play the fiddle?

And so:

"Sometimes a silence in music is better than adding to the static and so an end to it".

Based on these premises, and following this line of argument, I think he did the right thing. Now, if he got an invite to play in Cuba, say, I would expect him, using the same line of reasoning, to also decline to play. I suspect he would play, and if he does, I will argue that he's not being consistent, and his act would then be a political one. But let's wait on that one.



OK, so first of all, I might be wrong on this but EC never struck me as a very political artist. With the exception of "Peace, Love and Understanding" - which is a cover anyway - I can't recall any politic songs of his...

Second, he can convey a political message without supporting Israel. Roger Waters, a very political artist and a criticizer of Israel has performed here, and added the message of peace to his visit. His concert was held at a mixed city with Israelis and Arabs, and onstage he called for peace. Leonard Cohen, another serious artist, gave a wonderful speech in his show, and his show wasn't non-political either. So if EC wanted, he definitely could have - without choosing sides - said his message or whatever he wanted to. His show didn't have to be just about the music, it could be about peace too, like Waters or Cohen. The audience surely would have appreciated it.

And third, if EC had any doubts about performing here, he shouldn't have agreed in the first place.

alexv
Posts: 772
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: USA

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby alexv » Wed May 19, 2010 2:30 pm

Yaniv, EC is a political artist. He's no Elton John. Take it from a long-time fan/groupie.

On your second point. You miss my point: the reason I think EC is not performing is that he does not want to make a political point, for the reasons I summarized. Unlike Waters EC is not a "criticizer of Israel". That's the point. Any idiot can "call for peace". In a place like Israel, the issues are more complicated, and any "call for peace" should be followed up with: "agreed, have any ideas?" And that brings you straight into what EC wants to avoid. On your third point, he made a mistake.

User avatar
Emotional Toothpaste
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:15 pm

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby Emotional Toothpaste » Wed May 19, 2010 2:39 pm

Oh, Elvis is quite political and has done a fair amout of Bush-bashing. But you never really saw him cancelling concerts in "red states".

So, yes it is a bit curious why he would agree to play in Israel and then all of a sudden, and presumably not because of any recent incident that any of us are aware of, decide to cancel. He must've had some doubts going in and then it gnawed on him. We can only guess. But it is his prerogative, and I have no problem with it, I don't live in Israel . . . thank God, Allah, Yahweh, and Muhammed!

yaniv297
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:42 am

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby yaniv297 » Wed May 19, 2010 3:18 pm

alexv wrote:Yaniv, EC is a political artist. He's no Elton John. Take it from a long-time fan/groupie.

On your second point. You miss my point: the reason I think EC is not performing is that he does not want to make a political point, for the reasons I summarized. Unlike Waters EC is not a "criticizer of Israel". That's the point. Any idiot can "call for peace". In a place like Israel, the issues are more complicated, and any "call for peace" should be followed up with: "agreed, have any ideas?" And that brings you straight into what EC wants to avoid. On your third point, he made a mistake.


It's too late now for that, because whether he means it or not - his withdrawal is interpreted by many as an anti-Israeli, pro-Palestinian statement. Is that what he wanted? that anti-Israel organizations will thank him and make him their symbol? because that's what happening. So he did take a side - against Israel, or that's how most people take it. And I hope he realizes it and do something, or at least say something, about it.

IMO His only way out of this mess is the McCartney way - playing here, and emphasizing it's not for politics but for the fans. Plenty of people played here in the last few years and I don't think any of them are marked as Israel supporters.

Emotional Toothpaste wrote:Oh, Elvis is quite political and has done a fair amout of Bush-bashing. But you never really saw him cancelling concerts in "red states".

So, yes it is a bit curious why he would agree to play in Israel and then all of a sudden, and presumably not because of any recent incident that any of us are aware of, decide to cancel. He must've had some doubts going in and then it gnawed on him. We can only guess. But it is his prerogative, and I have no problem with it, I don't live in Israel . . . thank God, Allah, Yahweh, and Muhammed!


Yeah, that's another point, you didn't see him cancel US shows because of Afghanistan, right?

And as for the last part, living here ain't that bad... it's pretty good actually... save for the occasional artist canceling his show at the last minute

snapyou
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 2:55 pm
Location: Edinburgh,Scotland

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby snapyou » Wed May 19, 2010 4:19 pm

yaniv297 wrote:OK, so first of all, I might be wrong on this but EC never struck me as a very political artist. With the exception of "Peace, Love and Understanding" - which is a cover anyway - I can't recall any politic songs of his...



You're way of the mark there,I'm afraid.
Pills and Soap,Let 'Em Dangle,Shipbuilding,Tramp The Dirt Down,Peace In Our Time,River In Reverse are just a tiny selection of his political songs.

Judge Holden
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby Judge Holden » Wed May 19, 2010 6:29 pm

yaniv297 wrote:
alexv wrote: And third, if EC had any doubts about performing here, he shouldn't have agreed in the first place.


I disagree. It was a thoughtful and heartfelt statement by someone who's clearly swung back and forth with this and I would guess still has nagging doubts about his ultimate decision. Elvis makes clear that he has no wish to promote or represent any call for an organised boycott. It's not a moral absolute - issues of "conscience" and "instinct" aren't always clear-cut - but, at end of day, you come face to face with the fact that you just don't play apartheid states, regardless of the disappointment felt by thousands of decent and understandably hacked off fans.
He changed his mind - understandable, I think.

User avatar
Jack of All Parades
Posts: 5714
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:31 am
Location: Where I wish to be

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby Jack of All Parades » Wed May 19, 2010 6:40 pm

Judge, I have to concur with your's and Alexv's balanced takes on EC's action. Well thought out.
"....there's a merry song that starts in 'I' and ends in 'You', as many famous pop songs do....'

freedom
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 3:48 pm

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby freedom » Wed May 19, 2010 7:51 pm

God Bless you Elvis! You have done a good thing by canceling your concerts in Israel. Just as it was the right thing to boycott South Africa so to is it right to boycott Israel. Israels policies and actions are far worse than those of South Africa under apartheid.

My grandparents were born under Ottoman occupation in Palestine, my father under British occupation, and I was born in Jerusalem under Jordanian rule. Shortly after my birth Israel occupied the remaining lands of Palestine and our family fled to the United States. Although all occupations were bad, Israel was the only one to ethnically cleanse Palestine to make it exclusively for Jews. Israel does not recognize our family's right to return solely because we are not Jewish. Under international law refugees are guaranteed the right of return. As a non Jew, Israel denies me my right to live in my house, in the city of my birth, where we trace our family for over 500 years. Still Israel is not satisfied with the lands it has already cleansed of non Jews and wants more. Exclusive Jewish only settlements are growing at unprecedented rates in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in defiance of the civilized world. All settlements are illegal under international law. Israel denies the most basic of human rights to millions of Palestinians and has literally created the worlds largest open air prisons in the world..namely Gaza and the West Bank. Its time to end Israels racist policies. Its time for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against the outlaw State of Israel.

I thank god for people like Elvis in the public eye who are courageous enough to take a stand.

renagav
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:04 am

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby renagav » Thu May 20, 2010 1:43 am

freedom wrote:God Bless you Elvis! You have done a good thing by canceling your concerts in Israel. Just as it was the right thing to boycott South Africa so to is it right to boycott Israel. Israels policies and actions are far worse than those of South Africa under apartheid.

My grandparents were born under Ottoman occupation in Palestine, my father under British occupation, and I was born in Jerusalem under Jordanian rule. Shortly after my birth Israel occupied the remaining lands of Palestine and our family fled to the United States. Although all occupations were bad, Israel was the only one to ethnically cleanse Palestine to make it exclusively for Jews. Israel does not recognize our family's right to return solely because we are not Jewish. Under international law refugees are guaranteed the right of return. As a non Jew, Israel denies me my right to live in my house, in the city of my birth, where we trace our family for over 500 years. Still Israel is not satisfied with the lands it has already cleansed of non Jews and wants more. Exclusive Jewish only settlements are growing at unprecedented rates in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in defiance of the civilized world. All settlements are illegal under international law. Israel denies the most basic of human rights to millions of Palestinians and has literally created the worlds largest open air prisons in the world..namely Gaza and the West Bank. Its time to end Israels racist policies. Its time for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against the outlaw State of Israel.

I thank god for people like Elvis in the public eye who are courageous enough to take a stand.


OH you are such a fool.
You know nothing about your home or Israel.
Ethnic cleansing my butt! You misspeak!
I have lived in Jerusalem for 20 years with Arab neighbors in some of the nicest areas of Jerusalem. Arab families who, unlike yours did not run away and hope for the expulsion of the Jews but stayed and live here unmolested.
Get over yourself.
Do not lie or mislead folks here with your 30 year old nonsense.
Come and see the Peace Kindergarten at the YMCA or the Haddassa Hospital where Arab and Jew work and heal together.
Come to Tel Aviv where artists create together.
Come to the ONLY country in the Mideast that Guarantees Arabs free speech!!!!!
Then we can talk.
The only people causing problems here are folks like you and EK who are ignorant!

yaniv297
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:42 am

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby yaniv297 » Thu May 20, 2010 9:12 am

freedom wrote:God Bless you Elvis! You have done a good thing by canceling your concerts in Israel. Just as it was the right thing to boycott South Africa so to is it right to boycott Israel. Israels policies and actions are far worse than those of South Africa under apartheid.

[RANT]

I thank god for people like Elvis in the public eye who are courageous enough to take a stand.


...
This is so far from the truth it's kinda funny. How does your theory fits with the fact that 2 million Arabs do live in Israel? that there are about 12 Arabs at the Knesset? That Oldmert offered Abu-Mazen a deal that included the establishment of a Palestinian state, but Abu-Mazen didn't agree? Make sure you know what you're talking about before you talk.

Judge Holden wrote:Elvis makes clear that he has no wish to promote or represent any call for an organised boycott.


Apparently Elvis wasn't clear enough. There are already several pro-Palestinian organizations thanking him for "boycotting" Israel, and pretty much everyone around here are convinced that he did this cause he hates Israel. So basically, whether EC like it or not, he is now an anti-Israel symbol, and you can be sure that his canceling will be used by many political organizations.

And all this apartheid talk is nonsense, Israel is a democratic state whose law accept all religions. Israel is a modern, civilized country. And right now many of our leaders are talking about a 2 states solution - which means that, sooner or later, a Palestinian country will form. Everyone knows this. Do you think Paul McCartney, Leonard Cohen, Madonna, Roger Waters, Deep Purple (and in the past, Bob Dylan, Radiohead, R.E.M, Michael Jackson, U2, David Bowie, Neil Young, Nick Cave, Sting and plenty of others) all agreed to play for apartheid? That's just ridiculous. Sadly EC fell into stereotypes that aren't true.

And anyway, canceling a show a month before it's supposed to take place isn't professional and just plain rude to the fans.

alexv
Posts: 772
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:32 pm
Location: USA

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby alexv » Thu May 20, 2010 11:59 am

ET, on your bush-bashing red state point: you are absolutely right that he played red states and bush-bashed. Why? Because as he says in his post, for him music is not just music, it involves other things, including politics. On American politics he clearly has a stated view: he's made up his mind that the bush side of things is wrong etc. He knows that in red states folks do not agree with him, but, since he thinks those people are plain wrong, he plays in their states and tells them, openly, that he's not on their side. Some boo, some whistle, some call out for Alison. No conflict there for EC.

We may not all want to live in Alabama but cultural and political conflicts there pale in comparison to the mess in Israel. As you can see from some of the impassioned posting from the Middle East guest posters, Israeli/Palestinian conflicts make our Red/Blue state disagreements appear banal by comparison.

As EC says in his post, the difference is that even though he may have a private view on the Israeli/palestinian issue, he is not comfortable, given the fact that he acknowledges that the issues are much more complicated and nuanced, coming out on one side. Not the case in the US issues.

He is fearful that the act of playing there, will allow folks on either side of the dispute to claim that his decision means that he's taken one side, the Israeli. So, in order for that not to happen he withdraws. Clearly he knew that the withdrawal would also have another consequence: the israelis would interpret it as meaning that he's on the palestinian side.

You can see, from our new posters and their shall we say impassioned posts, that this has in fact happened. So you could argue, as they argue, that this was his intent all along, to signal where he stands (with the bad guys) all the while acting under a mask of neutrality.

So, once he announced he was playing he was stuck: (1) if he plays, the Palestinians go nuts; (2) if he plays and everyone treats it as non-issue, as Yaniv says and as presumably has happened to other artists that played there with little fanfare, he's not staying true to his long-standing view on the role of the musician vis a vis his music (what I described in my prior post as not wanting to play the fiddle while Rome burns), and (3) if he withdraws, the Israelis go nuts. A no-win situation.

I would have counseled him to stay away in the first and not give reasons. That didn't happen, unfortunately. But look at it another way, our sleepy Forum has been enlivened by Middle Eastearn-style political discourse.

User avatar
the_platypus
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby the_platypus » Thu May 20, 2010 12:03 pm

Some uh... lively debate going on in Elvis' Facebook Fan page.

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/Elv ... llo?ref=ts

Some people bringing up the Ray Charles incident.

yaniv297
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:42 am

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby yaniv297 » Thu May 20, 2010 12:55 pm

alexv wrote:ET, on your bush-bashing red state point: you are absolutely right that he played red states and bush-bashed. Why? Because as he says in his post, for him music is not just music, it involves other things, including politics. On American politics he clearly has a stated view: he's made up his mind that the bush side of things is wrong etc. He knows that in red states folks do not agree with him, but, since he thinks those people are plain wrong, he plays in their states and tells them, openly, that he's not on their side. Some boo, some whistle, some call out for Alison. No conflict there for EC.

We may not all want to live in Alabama but cultural and political conflicts there pale in comparison to the mess in Israel. As you can see from some of the impassioned posting from the Middle East guest posters, Israeli/Palestinian conflicts make our Red/Blue state disagreements appear banal by comparison.

As EC says in his post, the difference is that even though he may have a private view on the Israeli/palestinian issue, he is not comfortable, given the fact that he acknowledges that the issues are much more complicated and nuanced, coming out on one side. Not the case in the US issues.

He is fearful that the act of playing there, will allow folks on either side of the dispute to claim that his decision means that he's taken one side, the Israeli. So, in order for that not to happen he withdraws. Clearly he knew that the withdrawal would also have another consequence: the israelis would interpret it as meaning that he's on the palestinian side.

You can see, from our new posters and their shall we say impassioned posts, that this has in fact happened. So you could argue, as they argue, that this was his intent all along, to signal where he stands (with the bad guys) all the while acting under a mask of neutrality.

So, once he announced he was playing he was stuck: (1) if he plays, the Palestinians go nuts; (2) if he plays and everyone treats it as non-issue, as Yaniv says and as presumably has happened to other artists that played there with little fanfare, he's not staying true to his long-standing view on the role of the musician vis a vis his music (what I described in my prior post as not wanting to play the fiddle while Rome burns), and (3) if he withdraws, the Israelis go nuts. A no-win situation.

I would have counseled him to stay away in the first and not give reasons. That didn't happen, unfortunately. But look at it another way, our sleepy Forum has been enlivened by Middle Eastearn-style political discourse.


All I'm saying is, if he wanted to stay neutral he shouldn't have agreed to play here in the first place... because now he did take a stand, and that's against Israel, even thought he might not mean it.

And anyway, performing here wouldn't be interpreted as a pro-Israeli act. I don't remember McCartney, Dylan or U2 being marked as "Israel lovers" because of their performance. I doubt that the Palestinians would have "go nuts" if EC played here - I hope they have better things to do than envy the shows here. Any anyway, this summer we still have Elton John, Metallica, Rod Stewart, Pixies and the Scorpions, so it's not like EC canceling would change anything.

BTW I actually tried to register back in March and didn't get an activation e-mail. I'm a big Costello fan anyway and consider "King of America" and "Imperial Bedroom" to be great albums (Fave songs of his: "Indoor Fireworks"). I'd be glad to participate in some musical conversations, after this things is done...

johnfoyle
Posts: 14579
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:37 pm
Location: Dublin , Ireland

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby johnfoyle » Thu May 20, 2010 2:10 pm

http://www.jpost.com/ArtsAndCulture/Ent ... ?id=175930

Elvis Costello cancels upcoming show
By DAVID BRINN
20/05/2010 02:30

Jerusalem Post


Only two weeks after British rock icon Elvis Costello told The Jerusalem Post that the only answer to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is through “dialogue and reconciliation,” he took himself out of the equation by cancelling two shows scheduled for June 30 and July 1 at the Caesarea Amphitheater.

Costello posted an announcement over the weekend explaining his decision to join the boycott of Israel due to the country’s treatment of Palestinians. “There are occasions when merely having your name added to a concert schedule may be interpreted as a political act that resonates more than anything that might be sung and it may be assumed that one has no mind for the suffering of the innocent,” he wrote.

Saying he couldn’t imagine receiving another invitation to perform in Israel, Costello wrote that since the subjects involving the conflict “are actually too grave and complex to be addressed in a concert, then it is also quite impossible to simply look the other way... Sometimes a silence in music is better than adding to the static and so, an end to it [the Israeli concerts].

“I hope it is possible to understand that I am not taking this decision lightly or so I may stand beneath any banner, nor is it one in which I imagine myself to possess any unique or eternal truth. It is a matter of instinct and conscience,” he wrote.

Speaking to the Post on Wednesday night, Costello, 55, declined to expand on his written statement on his Web site aside from saying that his decision was part of a “30-year conundrum” that he had been dealing with regarding playing in Israel.

“The issues just became too complex and I woke up one day and realized I couldn’t go on with the shows,” he said, adding that there had been no threats or coercion against him.

Costello was set to make his Israeli debut with his new folk/bluegrass band The Sugarcanes, and in his conversation with the Post two weeks ago, he said that he had given much thought to playing in the country, but decided that he was against efforts to boycott performances.

“I know from the experience of a friend who is from Israel and from people who have worked there that there is a difference of opinion there among Israelis regarding their government’s policies. It seems to me that dialogue is essential. I don’t presume to think that my performance is going to be part of the process,” Costello told the Post.

“The people who call for a boycott of Israel own the narrow view that thinks performing there must be about profit and endorsing the hawkish policy of the government. It’s like never appearing in the US because you didn’t like Bush’s policies or boycotting England because of Margaret Thatcher.

“When you look at any democracy, no matter how flawed in the worst time when a government is in power acting in an irresponsible, violent and despicable way, the only answer is dialogue and reconciliation,” Costello added.

Alive Productions, which was promoting the Costello shows, said in a statement that it was shocked by Costello’s letter to them, which he later posted on his Web site.

“In the continuous contact we’ve had with Costello’s management, there was never even a shred of a clue that he was considering cancelling,” the statement said.

In a written response to Costello, Alive Productions appealed to him to reconsider his “sudden and extreme” decision.

“Back in February when you confirmed the performances in Israel, you were surely aware of the situation in the Middle East, and the existing long conflict between the two nations with different wants and dreams. You are probably familiar with the history and the global reality that we inIsrael are confronted with,” the letter stated.

“Perhaps there, it is easier to bury one’s head in the sand and again use prejudice as a conduit to cultural discrimination against a large culture-loving public...Music should be a voice of peace and brotherhood, a unifying force and should not be turned off merely because the background noises seem too loud.

“It is impossible to understand how your participation in a music concert, that is totally apolitical, can be interpreted as a political act. However, there can be no doubt that cancelling a performance for political reasons, and refusing to perform in Israel, can only be interpreted as a very strong political statement. Your decision will only push people further apart and enable those wrongdoers to win through cultural terror.”


Culture Minister Limor Livnat on Tuesday commented on the cancellation, saying “an artist who boycotts his Israeli fanbase is not worthy of performing in front of them.”

Costello joins two other international performers who have canceled performances here this summer: Rap/poet Gil Scott-Heron, who told an audience in London last month he was dropping his Tel Aviv show because he “didn’t like wars,” and Santana, whose management attributed his cancellation to his European tour being shortened.

Alive Productions, which is also bringing Costello’s wife, Canadian singer/pianist Diana Krall, to the Ra’anana Amphitheater on August 4, reassured fans that they had received word from her management (which she shares with Costello) that she had no plans to cancel her concert.

User avatar
the_platypus
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:14 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Elvis cancels shows in Israel , June/July '10

Postby the_platypus » Thu May 20, 2010 2:18 pm

Wow, Elvis really dropped the ball on this one. The more I think about it, the less sense his decision makes. Sad :cry:


Return to “Elvis Costello General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 56 guests