'a newspaper picture..A woman was kissing a child'

[redlandmark]

I am in full agreement with these two posters and their thoughtful posts. I truly hope EC takes full ownership of the song and willingly utilizes it as he tours up and down the countryside in the coming months. Her impact upon your country needs to be seriously called into question as his song forcefully does- the devastation she let loose upon the Northern shires[hell through out the island] is still palpable and will be so for many years to come as any student of her 'revolution' can see by studying the graphs and economic reports and by reading the histories. The Guardian piece that Otis shares argues reasonably for why EC and others need to speak out now- the hagiography that is underway needs to be countered. I have a friend who takes it a step further as he has stated that if EC "somehow disowns the song, then he will have officially crossed the line from 'repentant former irritant' to 'complacent kiss ass.'" Could not agree more.

People could use a little bit of this type of spirit and EC could provide it:

http://youtu.be/UASyS-jUKKI

EC needs to take these lines to heart:

"Now get yourself a song to sing and sing it 'til you're done
Yeah, sing it hard and sing it well"

Firstly, no question of Elvis disowning the song - someone mentioned earlier his searing anger even discussing the subject on the Late Show, I think this more than explains any reluctance to revisit the subject on a light entertainment show ten years later.

Secondly, hagiography or otherwise, I afraid it isn't Elvis Costello, Billy Bragg, Morrissey or Richard Thompson's responsibility to counter the arguments put forward for Thatcher's legacy. Their contributions were made 25 years ago, they stand as works of art - relevant ones for those of us who relate to them - but they are no more or less relevant because a deranged, demented and personality disordered old woman happens to have chosen April 2013 to shuffle off this mortal coil.

Thatcher's revolution is over, it's done, it can't be changed, many will never forgive or forget. We have been living with the consequences for years. So I would rather see any of the above artists - or any of their successors - write and perform intelligent, literate, relevant pieces of art which might connect with people today, about what today's politicians are doing to divide and conquer today's society.

[And No Coffee Table]

I referenced 1999 as he was heckled at the Royal Albert Hall show by people who called it, and his response was something like, "I don't do that one anymore", I taped the show and must dig it out to get the exact quote. The sense at the time was definitely that he had disowned it.

He included it on The Very Best of Elvis Costello that same year.

[Otis Westinghouse]

I felt an incredible power when I heard the song last May. Same as with Shipbuilding, he made me reconnect with youthful feelings of political rage and anger and wonder about what's become of the world since. It all seemed so black and white compared to the recent shades of grey of the 'Blairite patsies'. It's good for young people to see our more politicised youths and how much hate was instilled in us by a callous leader. I was reminded yesterday of a Spaniard I went to the Valle de los Caidos outside Madrid with 10 years after Franco's death and how wonderful it was to see him spit on his grave, in front of other Spaniards too. I won't claim Thatcher was as evil as Franco, but I still hate everything she stood for and would gladly stand on her grave and sing the song to myself.

[johnfoyle]

http://www.uncut.co.uk/blog/uncut-edito ... ret-thatch

[Jack of All Parades]

I am in full agreement with these two posters and their thoughtful posts. I truly hope EC takes full ownership of the song and willingly utilizes it as he tours up and down the countryside in the coming months. Her impact upon your country needs to be seriously called into question as his song forcefully does- the devastation she let loose upon the Northern shires[hell through out the island] is still palpable and will be so for many years to come as any student of her 'revolution' can see by studying the graphs and economic reports and by reading the histories. The Guardian piece that Otis shares argues reasonably for why EC and others need to speak out now- the hagiography that is underway needs to be countered. I have a friend who takes it a step further as he has stated that if EC "somehow disowns the song, then he will have officially crossed the line from 'repentant former irritant' to 'complacent kiss ass.'" Could not agree more.

People could use a little bit of this type of spirit and EC could provide it:

http://youtu.be/UASyS-jUKKI

EC needs to take these lines to heart:

"Now get yourself a song to sing and sing it 'til you're done
Yeah, sing it hard and sing it well"

Firstly, no question of Elvis disowning the song - someone mentioned earlier his searing anger even discussing the subject on the Late Show, I think this more than explains any reluctance to revisit the subject on a light entertainment show ten years later.

Secondly, hagiography or otherwise, I afraid it isn't Elvis Costello, Billy Bragg, Morrissey or Richard Thompson's responsibility to counter the arguments put forward for Thatcher's legacy. Their contributions were made 25 years ago, they stand as works of art - relevant ones for those of us who relate to them - but they are no more or less relevant because a deranged, demented and personality disordered old woman happens to have chosen April 2013 to shuffle off this mortal coil.

Thatcher's revolution is over, it's done, it can't be changed, many will never forgive or forget. We have been living with the consequences for years. So I would rather see any of the above artists - or any of their successors - write and perform intelligent, literate, relevant pieces of art which might connect with people today, about what today's politicians are doing to divide and conquer today's society.

Otis's last comment is most effective. It answers this adroitly. But your considered response deserves a considered reply by me, as well. I am not foolish enough to believe that it is the sole job of any performer or artist to offer counter arguments. But they can definitely assist Historians in calling attention to the truth. That is what I expect of EC in this matter. His song is a most effective red flag and I hope he waives it at every opportunity. It does not mean he, or we, need to literaly dance upon her grave but symbolicly I can when I listen to the song's words. What Ms Thatcher wrought can be undone. It will take considerable effort and resolve to do that. Her ideas have not disappeared. They still shape the programs that are being pitched by the succeeding PMs who have governed since she left office. I liked what Billy Bragg said in a radio interview in Canada the other evening while quietly discussing her legacy and his resistance to it. He said basically don't demigod her but organize against her and those who would continue her legacy. I like that- maybe you will not see a return of government owned institutions but you can certainly put a stop to a tax on the poor for having a spare bedroom in their home. You can certainly see that the rich pay their fair share. You can put an end to the excesses of the 1%. The Uncut interview posted by Mr. Foyle is eye opening. I like that EC views his song as a buoy- a marker- denoting where 'the ship went down'. EC is correct in noting that the song is meant to call attention to the damage she did. England, and the world, cannot be reminded of that enough. He needs to perform that song at every stop in his upcoming tour. Not to be the man of the hour but to elequently remind people of the damage she caused. The white washing of her legacy in the weeks and years to come needs to be countered. His song is a good start. It is political art of a high order. I am ashamed that my President has issued such a milk toast remembrance of her. As Otis previously wrote- EC needs to take ownership of his words now and bring that song front and center once again. EC can perform a real service in once again using his song to remind us that history need not be repeated- that the ill chosen policies of the past need not be repeatedly relived in the present and the future.

[invisible Pole]

I am not British, so I will not take any sides, as others so willingly do, with regards to her home politics.
For me and my country, she is someone who will be remembered fondly for her strict anti-communist stance.
Eastern Europe will always be thankful for her contribution to the demise of the dreadful regime.

[Paul B]

Very good point - it was her and Regan's hard line AND willingness to negociate that allowed Gorbachev to end the Cold War - added to the fact that the Russians were broke, couldn't afford to keep up the arms race and couldn't control their satellite states anymore. On the other hand the oligarchs (especially Putin, the biggest oligarch of them all) are a product of the unfettered selfish free enterprise she espoused (with an added good sprinkling of gangsterism and corruption). 'Freedom under the rule of law' was her mantra, much of the former Soviet block missed out the last two words though.

[sheeptotheslaughter]

I know Poland was certainly a country that benefitted from the break up of the Soviet Bloc (or whatever you want to call it) My wife at the time was from a Polish family and I know the country improved no end for the rise of Solidarity etc at the time. Funny how it started from the unions being formed and workers getting more rights. I do not think my 'Polish' family at the time said this was all because of Thatcher and Reagan

Could you also say that the former Yugoslavia is a country that were allowed freedom because of Thatcher and Reagan? Look how well that worked out. I have a friend from Bosnia who told me how one day they were all friends, next day everyone was killing each other.
Another great by product of this is that in the UK I believe we are reliant on Russia for a lot of our energy needs. I forsee no problems there in future.
I cant pretend for one minute I am an expert on the politics of Eastern Europe. So I could be spouting rubbish

Living in London I do not think we felt the full brunt of her policies but one thing sticks out to me. I worked with woman who came from village outside of Doncaster. She said to me thatcher put every single person there out of work and didnt give a damn about what happened to them.

I respect everyone's right to their political view, and I am very pleased with myself that I have managed to get though this without a swear word in this rant, I also havent mentioned her covering up the Hillsborough tragedy and the fact she thought all football fans were thugs no exceptions, She made no attempt to find peace in Northern Ireland but I for one agree with Elvis and if I get the chance I will stamp on her grave and Tramp the Fucking dirt down. (Ok just the one swear word)

[verbal gymnastics]

Sheeptotheslaughter - oh this must be love!

[johnfoyle]

Elvis Costello & B P Fallon, Slane, 1985


Elvis first played 'Tramp on Irish radio in May 1987 -

http://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/inde ... _Orchestra

Here's a sound file -

http://www.mediafire.com/?ficu9utd0vdmvid

[Fishfinger king]

All this fuss in the media about whether the BBC will play "The Witch is Dead" on the chart show, presumably means that "Tramp The Dirt Down" is nowhere in the official BBC charts.
Elvis the sucker can't buy an even break even when he's written a song perfect for the occasion.
Don't you just the love the Great British Public??

Thatcher's revolution is over, it's done, it can't be changed, many will never forgive or forget. We have been living with the consequences for years. So I would rather see any of the above artists - or any of their successors - write and perform intelligent, literate, relevant pieces of art which might connect with people today, about what today's politicians are doing to divide and conquer today's society.

This is so true!! There must be a great Pygmalion in reverse song to be written about George Osborne being taught how to speak Estuary English. By George ee's goddit!

[John]

There must be distinctly different people buy from Amazon and iTunes. TTDD is currently at number 4 in the Amazon UK Charts (number 2 when filtered to pop) and yet number 134 in iTunes. Would have been great to hear TTDD on a top 40 show!

[johnfoyle]

A earlier version of 'Tramp was, of course, Betrayal

http://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/index.php/Betrayal
http://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/inde ... f_Betrayal
http://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/inde ... -09_London

[Jack of All Parades]

From Slate:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... her_s.html

The delicious irony is that the BBC is not certain if the demographic that the program is geared to even know who Ms Thatcher was. 'those who do not learn from history are condemned to relive it' or something to that effect!

[sheeptotheslaughter]

There must be distinctly different people buy from Amazon and iTunes. TTDD is currently at number 4 in the Amazon UK Charts (number 2 when filtered to pop) and yet number 134 in iTunes. Would have been great to hear TTDD on a top 40 show!

The London Evening Standard said it was 'bubbling under', the fact it has no publicity about it being played on the chart show means it cant be in the top 40.

[Neil.]

I know it sounds a little paranoid, but I can't help thinking that 'Tramp the Dirt Down' hasn't been mentioned in the BBC's 'Ding Dong' news reports because the BBC doesn't want to be seen to be giving it publicity. It has, however, mentioned the 'I Love Margaret Thatcher' song, for balance.

[verbal gymnastics]

The justifications from the BBC are very poor and patronising and indicative of a nanny state.

[Jack of All Parades]

The justifications from the BBC are very poor and patronising and indicative of a nanny state.

Ah VG you warm the essence of Mr. Bragg's heart.

I enjoyed this reminiscence posted in Slate:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... _lady.html