GOSSIP

[so lacklustre]

100th

[so lacklustre]

101st










































if I keep doing this will you guys get fed up with this thread?

[noiseradio]

It wasn't my picture, LTZ. I think it was Rope's.

[LessThanZero]

oops, MY BAD NOISE!

Yes, it was rope's.

[shabbydoll]

I still haven't read all of this thread, just the bits after my first post on it, but I would like to say that love is a very weird thing, and sometimes it just can't be helped. It's not really something for anyone to judge. I do agree with Noise, if Pete had been guilty I would have been very sad and disappointed, but that kind of thing isn't love. I think Elvis is sometimes too full of himself, but if that personality trait contributes to his music, then I am glad he's that way.

[SweetPear]

I think it's wrong to assume that North is intended to be autobiographical in any way. It may have been inspired by the recent events in his life, but to look at it as his attempt to tell his side of the "story" is a mistake. While he has said that the lyrics on this album are more "direct," I've never seen any published statement where he said "this is the story of my breakup with Cait and finding Diana."

I haven't been around for awhile either and just caught up on this thread.
POV has expressed the way I feel about this subject.
As for Diana.... I don't understand the "jazz siren" thing. (She does look like a man in drag, doesn't she??) She's not that incredible~to look at OR to listen to. And I don't know if it's her or if EC is just going through a mid-life crisis or what, but he IS acting the rock star, isn't he? And it doesn't become him at all. I don't dig that shitty little grin....and that all leads me to say that while it IS hard to not be curious about people we like, I think we have to take all these "stories" with a grain of salt. I was going to say that it's really none of our business (and it's really not) but if it's out there, then I guess we can make it our business and have an opinion as well.
I'm an EC fan because I like his music and (for me) that has extended itself into great admiration and also interest in him as a person. Not knowing him personally, I can only base these things on his work and what he has put out there about himself personally. I don't admire him because he's a saint and I don't know if he's really a prick (I guess I'll wait until we become better aquainted before I can comment on that!)
I'm a fan, just a big, big fan.

[lipstickvogue]

I so agree POV & Sweet Pear- after my re-reading my previous post it occurs to me that I sounded a little censor-happy...not my intent. I'm as big a fan of persons with opinions as I am of EC: quite huge.

Further, without being too catty, I have to admit that during a heated game of Scrabble last week a "friend" of mine threw on a DK cd and I completely lost my ability to concentrate. THAT is playing filthy dirty.

I simply don't understand the fascination.

[Copenhagen Fan]

I was with Pete all the way...Pete is a sexual beast.....but kiddie porn is nothing I would believe he would engage in....*not that I know him personally*.........maybe some of the secret superstars here know him.

[shabbydoll]

Ha!

[absolutnut]

Just pray to god she's not another Heather Mills.

[A rope leash]

For LTZ and all who might wonder why I posted the painting of "Nazi tenderness" on page four here, in regards to this thread, I offer this reasoning.

First, the subject, which some might find offensive in various ways, depicts a pariah type in a touching romantic moment. Even folks who are now commonly presented as evil really could feel love and other human emotions. All humans are human, even the ones who are morally bankrupt.

That said, as I know the despicable character who painted this portrait, I also know that a person of less than stellar morality can be both talented and intelligent.

As I don't really know Elvis Costello, I can't speak to his morality. He's stayed out of prison. He quite obviously has talent. That's the part I like.

That said, the chick in the painting is hot, eh what?. As I know some folks would cover David, I may reduce it to a link line.

[laughingcrow]

I liked the pic Rope...

and that Eva Braun eh....phwoar!!!!

[Copenhagen Fan]

Wow ROpe...I thought that picture was the epitome of erotisism......*fits in well with my Dr. Mengale games*

However, I think a woman in that uniform would be even more sexy.

[Gillibeanz]

Even folks who are now commonly presented as evil really could feel love and other human emotions. All humans are human, even the ones who are morally bankrupt.

You disappoint me Rope - try telling that to all those millions of jews, handicapped people, gypsies and mentally ill people the Nazis tortured mulilated and murdered. Some people have no emotions or soul and do not even have the right to be classed as human.

As for the picture it is pervy nasty and gets a typical male 'think with your dick' response "oh shes so hot" - never mind the fucking content! Sometimes im disappointed in mankind , - beacuse the word 'man' & 'kind' just doesnt apply. And no , im not jewish.

[A rope leash]

I will now tell the "Jews", ect., that Nazis were human, and that all humans are capable of barbarism, even Jews. Every time an Isreali shoots a Palestinian for throwing a rock, it is proven.

Don't forget, the Nazis were solid Christians, full well going to heaven. They were people. Elvis is a person. We're all liable to do anything, because we are human.

Don't blame me for that. I'd rather be a dog, anyway. Yeah, it's R-rated, I'll dissolve it.

[Copenhagen Fan]

Gilli...while I share your sympathy for the victims of the Nazi's and your disgust with what they represented, I must say that the "symbols" (and they had an incredibly symbolic propaganda and dogmatic edge to the way that they presented things), of the Nazi regime are abhorent to many, but for others have transcended their original meaning. In my opinion, many of these symbols have lost much of their power and have been transformed into a pop cultural type of icon. (please don't tell me I'm sick for saying this).....

In a sexual context, this imagery represents evil, cunning and cruelty mixed with the forbiden fruit concept, as well as the absurd. in a perverted Monty Python type of gesture. Some people use this imagery or type of fashion statement to convey a mood or to access the feeling of true evil in sexualty. In this sense the actions and happenings of the past are forgotten and the imagery has taken on a new identity.

I think it's quite a leap to imply that Rope is a supporter of this imagery in its original form, in fact I think it could be seen as naive.

While I don't go around the house in Waffen SS gear, I appriciate the astetics of the uniforms and imagery for what they are on a non-political level. The Swastika is actually a symbol of Native Americans, and I think it was used in another context as well, long before Hitler even dreamed of using it. He stole other symbols from other cultures as well, using art and music in his propaganda machine. In any case, the person who designed the uniforms had a flair for fashion and was more than likely a fetishist!

Should these symbols be banished? I say no, because they mean different things to different people. We cannot remember the past by denying its exsistence.

[shabbydoll]

It's a bit like 'He who shall not be named' in the Harry Potter books. A zebra by any other name....

[Gillibeanz]

ROPE: I just found the picture in bad taste for the content - not because its 'x' rated. I'm no prude but sometimes men dont think beyond thier wedding tackle reaction. Im fully aware that all nations and creeds are capable of inflicting atrocities on others - and 2 wrongs dont make a right. Having said all this I still rate the dog but "GO TO YOUR BASKET!!"

COPE: The Nazi symbols have lost their meaning and power? I dont think so - no matter who the Swastika belonged to in the first place the Nazi have made it their own and it still stands for the same values today in the National Front. We forget too much too soon - it should never be forgotton or belittled what that stood for, and if it does then it begins to rear its ugly head again like in the National Front party. I didnt say Rope was a supporter of this nor would I be impertinent enough to assume so, I just thought it was very flippant and an unecessary picture for an Elvis board. As for fetishes each to their own, - whatever turns you on, but as with most fetishes they are best kept to oneself.

[Boy With A Problem]

Two little Hitlers will fight it out until
One little Hitler does the other one's will

hmmm - sounds like our man isn't adverse to using a little Nazi symbolism as an art statement.

And Gilli - weren't you the one on the old Tower of Song thread to equate what the list had become (shortly after I nominated Patsy Cline's, "Faded Love" as some sort of "racial purification" deal (or some Nazi reference), and when called on it, responded with "it was just a joke" ? Are images different than words?

[Sour Milk Cow]

I think it's wrong to assume that North is intended to be autobiographical in any way. It may have been inspired by the recent events in his life, but to look at it as his attempt to tell his side of the "story" is a mistake. While he has said that the lyrics on this album are more "direct," I've never seen any published statement where he said "this is the story of my breakup with Cait and finding Diana."

How is it "wrong" to assume that North is intended to be autobiographical "in any way"? In ANY way???? So, when he writes a song about moving to Canada (the non-album "title" track, "North"), we are just to assume that it's a coincidence that he made up a fictional character who is ALSO moving to Canada? (By the way, when asked why the album was called NORTH, he answered: "That's where I'm heading." So, there is obviously at least one way that the album is autobiographical, in that the song "North" is, according to Elvis himself, about how he's moving to Canada to be with Diana Krall.)

I would like to know how many of the people who are saying the album is definitely not "in any way" autobiographical have actually heard the album. Mainly because there is a big difference between those who have heard these new songs and STILL don't think they are true-life adventures, and those who are just saying "I don't think he would do that."

Listening to the songs, I'd say it goes well beyond just songs that are loosely inspired by recent events. It actually forms a narrative, and while it doesn't name names and give out a lot of specifics, it's much more, MUCH more of a personal, confessional album than he has ever, ever, ever written before. It's sort of a landmark album in that respect. I think the album still works as a universal exploration of some basic human emotions, but it is also the first time he has really created an album that was entirely devoted to things that just happened to him in his personal life. There are no "filler" songs or songs that veer away from the story he's telling.

Anyway, I'm not going on the attack here or anything, just profoundly disagreeing with the notion that it's "wrong" to assume that the album is "in any way" autobiographical. It's actually wrong to assume that the album is in no way autobiographical-- it would probably be wrong of MOST of elvis' albums, because most of them have songs that feature Elvis writing about his life and his experiences, even if he might dress them up a bit at times. But in the case of North, it's so very personal that to deny the autobiographical nature of it seems kind of defensive, because it is so hard to escape.

[laughingcrow]

Cope...the swastika is a hindu symbol meaning 'good luck' (that little prat with a moustache, was, belive it or not, very into eastern spirituality)...I went to my pals house to stay, and he has a hindu mum and dad, and they had them everywhere. It was a little strange to see something that represents evil out of context.

Can't we talk about kittens instead, they're so much nicer...

I like the ones with the fluffy tales!

[LessThanZero]

They were also all over the Roman empire right?

[laughingcrow]

What...kittens or swastikas?

[LessThanZero]

kittens AND swastikas, and it was really hell too....cuz it was julie roberts, the real coal train robberin.

[noiseradio]

I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish neighborhood. My next door neighbors (on both sides) were Auschwitz survivors. Mrs. Raab had the tattooed numbers on her arm to prove it. Both she and Dr. Raab had been married to other people before the war, and both had choldren. Their spouses and children were gassed. Mrs. Raab lost two roes to frostbite, and Dr. Raab never fully recovered his health, but they survived. They found each other after the war, and they moved to the US. They had children and grandchildren, and they made as good alife for themselves as they could. They were happy, I think, but they never forgot.

I think your claim that those symbols had lost their brutal impact would fall on deaf ears on West Strathmore Avenue, Baltimore, Maryland. I think the Raabs and the Sternhills, the Goldbergs, the Dubins, the Wallens, and the Kashnows would beg to differ with you that the swastika as fashion statement was mere pop culture icon. And I know they would take you to task for comparing the genocide of the concentration camps of Germany and Poland with the admittedly deeply flawed domestic policies of Israel. To talk about the Nazi uniform as a turn-on? Perhaps that plays in Denmark. But I think it to be totally inappropriate here.

You are welcome to express yourself, of course. But don't expect to have such notions go unchallenged.

By the by, Hitler and his minions had much less to do with Christianity than Rope suggests. There were major elements of Norse mythology and religion in their philosophy of hate. The SS bars were in the shape of lightening bolts. That was a Thor reference, not a Christ reference.