San Diego tonight!
-
Otis Westinghouse
- Posts: 8856
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:32 pm
- Location: The theatre of dreams
Looks like there are a few people from San Diego on here.
Otis, thanks for the welcome back. I kinda forgot about this place and my internet time seems to be spent at easytree and the EC hifidelity trade list.
Misha started my addiction last year and it's grown into a pretty consuming habit. http://home.san.rr.com/allosmcmlist/ I've got to update that list.
Hopefully some boots of this tour will surface.
Take care all
Otis, thanks for the welcome back. I kinda forgot about this place and my internet time seems to be spent at easytree and the EC hifidelity trade list.
Misha started my addiction last year and it's grown into a pretty consuming habit. http://home.san.rr.com/allosmcmlist/ I've got to update that list.
Hopefully some boots of this tour will surface.
Take care all
-
Monkey Girl
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:09 am
- Location: North Carolina
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/feat ... varga.html
Sounding off on the bad sound of music
By George Varga
UNION-TRIBUNE POP MUSIC CRITIC
April 10, 2005
There's only one thing at concerts that annoys me even more than the sound of boorish loudmouths who blather incessantly through shows they've paid good money to attend: concerts that sound bad regardless of how many chattering nitwits are in the audience.
Witness the recent San Diego performances by Kings of Leon and Elvis Costello & The Imposters. The two appeared in front of sold-out audiences in very different venues – Costello and his band as headliners at 4th & B on March 23, Kings of Leon as the opening act for U2 at the ipayOne Center at the Sports Arena on March 28 and 30. But despite the dramatic contrasts between the 1,500-capacity 4th & B and the 14,500-capacity arena, Costello and Kings of Leon each sounded terrible.
I'm not referring to their music, but to the appalling audio quality at their respective concerts, which sounded as if they were either being performed from inside trash compactors in overdrive or through a giant car stereo with busted woofers. Either way, the painfully distorted din was an insult to their music and fans.
These shows are symptomatic of a troubling decline in audio quality at concerts in San Diego and across the nation – a trend made more annoying by the concurrent rise in ticket prices.
Costello, a 2004 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee and one of pop-music's most gifted and versatile artists, suffered from a muddy, distorted mix at 4th & B. It was so bass-heavy that his impassioned vocals and Steve Nieve's agile keyboard work were repeatedly overwhelmed.
Kings of Leon, who delivered a rousing (and well-mixed) performance here at 'Canes in January, sounded awful at the ipayOne Center on March 28 and only a bit better on March 30.
Unlike Costello, though, this young Tennessee band at least had an acceptable reason for sounding so bad. Prior to the U2 tour, which opened here, the group had never performed in an arena. As a result, neither the Kings of Leon nor its soundman had any experience in achieving an even halfway decent sound in such a sprawling setting. Arena-rock veterans U2, conversely, sounded crisp, clear and well-balanced.
But Costello's concert sound was inexcusable, especially since he had his own soundman (who mysteriously had no trouble getting a decent mix for singer-songwriter Tift Merritt, the show's opening act).
Since releasing his debut album in 1977, Costello has performed in countless clubs, concert halls and arenas. A perfectionist on record and in concert, he and his audio engineers have previously achieved admirable sound quality at such diverse area venues as Copley Symphony Hall, SDSU's Open Air Theatre and even the Starlight Bowl, where jets constantly fly overhead.
At 4th & B, Costello's fuzzy, sub-lo-fi sound made it difficult to tell he was performing "Radio Radio" until he sang the chorus. I moved to different parts of the venue to try and find a spot where the sound was better, but to no avail.
There are two possible conclusions, both unsettling.
The first is that Costello was somehow unaware of just how lousy he sounded. (In past conversations with artists as varied as jazz guitar great John McLaughlin and the backing band for the Everly Brothers, I've discovered that performers often don't have a clue what their audiences are hearing. "We have our sound monitors on stage; I have no idea what it sounds like up front," McLaughlin told me.)
The second is that Costello was aware (and approved) of the sound mix he got at 4th & B. (I articulated my concerns to his New York publicist, who forwarded them to Costello's camp, but no reply has been forthcoming.)
Unlike Costello, some artists have suffered because they couldn't afford to hire their own audio engineer. This means they had to rely on the venue's soundman, who may have had no familiarity with their music.
For example, the jazz trio the Bad Plus' 2003 4th & B show was so poorly mixed it sounded as if the group's members were playing in different rooms. I was so dismayed by how their music suffered that I later contacted the group.
In an e-mail response, Bad Plus bassist Reid Anderson wrote: "Thank you for your concern. I must tell you that we are well aware of the need to travel with our own sound engineer and have been looking for a way to make it happen as soon as possible. This was the first tour of that type for us – playing larger, more rock-oriented rooms. We knew that sound was going to be a challenge and really have no excuse other than that we simply couldn't afford to bring someone along. But, as you say, at this point we can't afford not to, especially in those situations."
Some of the worst concerts, audio-wise, that I've heard were abysmal because the performers either didn't have the time or inclination to do a pre-show soundcheck. Others suffered because the band in question was too green or oblivious to hire an experienced sound engineer.
"We do a soundcheck every day, no matter what," Don Henley of the Eagles told me last year. "And we have the same house (sound) mixer we've had for many, many years now. The problems at concerts are because bands play too loud, period."
Is it too much to suggest that bands be required to do pre-show soundchecks, or that they offer refunds to unsatisfied patrons if they don't? I think not. Surely, it isn't unreasonable for ticket-buyers to expect decent or better sound in return for their money.
Whatever the reason for the distorted din at Costello's show, it left me only one option: I walked out. (Friends who stayed until the conclusion told me the sound only improved marginally by night's end.)
As a longtime Costello fan, it pained me to leave. But as a lifelong music lover, it would have been even more painful to remain.
Sounding off on the bad sound of music
By George Varga
UNION-TRIBUNE POP MUSIC CRITIC
April 10, 2005
There's only one thing at concerts that annoys me even more than the sound of boorish loudmouths who blather incessantly through shows they've paid good money to attend: concerts that sound bad regardless of how many chattering nitwits are in the audience.
Witness the recent San Diego performances by Kings of Leon and Elvis Costello & The Imposters. The two appeared in front of sold-out audiences in very different venues – Costello and his band as headliners at 4th & B on March 23, Kings of Leon as the opening act for U2 at the ipayOne Center at the Sports Arena on March 28 and 30. But despite the dramatic contrasts between the 1,500-capacity 4th & B and the 14,500-capacity arena, Costello and Kings of Leon each sounded terrible.
I'm not referring to their music, but to the appalling audio quality at their respective concerts, which sounded as if they were either being performed from inside trash compactors in overdrive or through a giant car stereo with busted woofers. Either way, the painfully distorted din was an insult to their music and fans.
These shows are symptomatic of a troubling decline in audio quality at concerts in San Diego and across the nation – a trend made more annoying by the concurrent rise in ticket prices.
Costello, a 2004 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee and one of pop-music's most gifted and versatile artists, suffered from a muddy, distorted mix at 4th & B. It was so bass-heavy that his impassioned vocals and Steve Nieve's agile keyboard work were repeatedly overwhelmed.
Kings of Leon, who delivered a rousing (and well-mixed) performance here at 'Canes in January, sounded awful at the ipayOne Center on March 28 and only a bit better on March 30.
Unlike Costello, though, this young Tennessee band at least had an acceptable reason for sounding so bad. Prior to the U2 tour, which opened here, the group had never performed in an arena. As a result, neither the Kings of Leon nor its soundman had any experience in achieving an even halfway decent sound in such a sprawling setting. Arena-rock veterans U2, conversely, sounded crisp, clear and well-balanced.
But Costello's concert sound was inexcusable, especially since he had his own soundman (who mysteriously had no trouble getting a decent mix for singer-songwriter Tift Merritt, the show's opening act).
Since releasing his debut album in 1977, Costello has performed in countless clubs, concert halls and arenas. A perfectionist on record and in concert, he and his audio engineers have previously achieved admirable sound quality at such diverse area venues as Copley Symphony Hall, SDSU's Open Air Theatre and even the Starlight Bowl, where jets constantly fly overhead.
At 4th & B, Costello's fuzzy, sub-lo-fi sound made it difficult to tell he was performing "Radio Radio" until he sang the chorus. I moved to different parts of the venue to try and find a spot where the sound was better, but to no avail.
There are two possible conclusions, both unsettling.
The first is that Costello was somehow unaware of just how lousy he sounded. (In past conversations with artists as varied as jazz guitar great John McLaughlin and the backing band for the Everly Brothers, I've discovered that performers often don't have a clue what their audiences are hearing. "We have our sound monitors on stage; I have no idea what it sounds like up front," McLaughlin told me.)
The second is that Costello was aware (and approved) of the sound mix he got at 4th & B. (I articulated my concerns to his New York publicist, who forwarded them to Costello's camp, but no reply has been forthcoming.)
Unlike Costello, some artists have suffered because they couldn't afford to hire their own audio engineer. This means they had to rely on the venue's soundman, who may have had no familiarity with their music.
For example, the jazz trio the Bad Plus' 2003 4th & B show was so poorly mixed it sounded as if the group's members were playing in different rooms. I was so dismayed by how their music suffered that I later contacted the group.
In an e-mail response, Bad Plus bassist Reid Anderson wrote: "Thank you for your concern. I must tell you that we are well aware of the need to travel with our own sound engineer and have been looking for a way to make it happen as soon as possible. This was the first tour of that type for us – playing larger, more rock-oriented rooms. We knew that sound was going to be a challenge and really have no excuse other than that we simply couldn't afford to bring someone along. But, as you say, at this point we can't afford not to, especially in those situations."
Some of the worst concerts, audio-wise, that I've heard were abysmal because the performers either didn't have the time or inclination to do a pre-show soundcheck. Others suffered because the band in question was too green or oblivious to hire an experienced sound engineer.
"We do a soundcheck every day, no matter what," Don Henley of the Eagles told me last year. "And we have the same house (sound) mixer we've had for many, many years now. The problems at concerts are because bands play too loud, period."
Is it too much to suggest that bands be required to do pre-show soundchecks, or that they offer refunds to unsatisfied patrons if they don't? I think not. Surely, it isn't unreasonable for ticket-buyers to expect decent or better sound in return for their money.
Whatever the reason for the distorted din at Costello's show, it left me only one option: I walked out. (Friends who stayed until the conclusion told me the sound only improved marginally by night's end.)
As a longtime Costello fan, it pained me to leave. But as a lifelong music lover, it would have been even more painful to remain.
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Otis Westinghouse
- Posts: 8856
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:32 pm
- Location: The theatre of dreams
An evening of pain of different sorts! Sound in London was excellent. Maybe the sound engineer was unwell that night. It's probably true that artists are very much at the mercy of the sound engineers. They may detect differences in clarity, etc. in their monitors, but that probably isn't a reflection at all of the PA. From my very limited experience of playing live music, I've found it impossible to tell how things sound on the other side. It's all sounded totally imbalanced to me, but was probably OK.
There's more to life than books, you know, but not much more
Some listserv response to this -
I'm amazed that this bloke is able to offer such a cogent analysis of
the
sound mixing at rock gigs. To my ears, they're mostly all pitched way
too
loud and everything distorts once you've been exposed for even a short
while. The finer points of whatever audio miracles the guy with his
belly
concealed under a loose-fitting t-shirt is working at the mixing desk
are
very quickly rendered immaterial, in my experience.
EC has always been a major offender in this department when he's
touring
with a rocking pop combo. Presumably, he thinks it's "rock & roll" to
set
the decibels up at Nigel Tufnel levels. In fact, I should have sued the
bastard after one particular Rude 5 gig at Hammersmith in 1991 which
I'm
certain took me years to recover properly from. (You don't want the
gory
details, believe me but it was more than just a bit of ringing in the
ear
the next day.)
Maybe I'm over-sensitive but I really don't understand how anyone
enjoys the
sort of ear-splitting volume levels which are encountered at amplified
gigs.
I wear earplugs for any I attend now - but it isn't really my idea of
fun to
spend the evening with a couple of cheesy wotsits rammed in my earholes
while some egomaniac slakes his lust for power by forcing me to bow
down
before the awesome majesty of his "stack". The best solution I've found
to
the problem is simply to stay at home and to spend my 30 or 40 quid on
CDs
instead.
Not only can I can listen to these shiny little marvels without
damaging my
hearing, I also don't have to queue for hours, have some burly security
twat
order me around, have some arsehole blow cigarette smoke in my face all
night, have recreational drug abusers crash into me for sport or have
the
tallest bloke in the world come and stand right in front of me just as
the
show begins.
All this and I can stop and take a piss whenever I want. Heaven.
Rock & roll gigs - who needs 'em?
Mark (old fogey)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> But Costello's concert sound was inexcusable, especially since he had
his
own soundman
I know we´ve discussed it before, but I will keep wondering how on
earth EC
allows this to go on. What´s the point of distorting one of the
greatest
combos to the point where ears starts bleeding ? Does anyone in their
right
mind consider this to be RockAndRoll ? The sound at the two latest
Oslo
concerts have been utterly appalling. Several times I had to stick
fingers
in my ears to decipher what tunes they were playing, and I like to
think
that I know most of his songs. The ballads have usually been OK, but as
soon
as the band starts rocking, the soundman obviously falls into a deep
coma.
Sure, I can stay at home and listen to the CD, but hey, I used to enjoy
EC
concerts.....sans earplugs.
I´ve started questioning whether our boy is a cheapskate and that he´s
hired the cheapeast and worst soundman in the known universe.
RockAndRoll should be played LOUD, but this is beyond ridiculous.
Sverre
I'm amazed that this bloke is able to offer such a cogent analysis of
the
sound mixing at rock gigs. To my ears, they're mostly all pitched way
too
loud and everything distorts once you've been exposed for even a short
while. The finer points of whatever audio miracles the guy with his
belly
concealed under a loose-fitting t-shirt is working at the mixing desk
are
very quickly rendered immaterial, in my experience.
EC has always been a major offender in this department when he's
touring
with a rocking pop combo. Presumably, he thinks it's "rock & roll" to
set
the decibels up at Nigel Tufnel levels. In fact, I should have sued the
bastard after one particular Rude 5 gig at Hammersmith in 1991 which
I'm
certain took me years to recover properly from. (You don't want the
gory
details, believe me but it was more than just a bit of ringing in the
ear
the next day.)
Maybe I'm over-sensitive but I really don't understand how anyone
enjoys the
sort of ear-splitting volume levels which are encountered at amplified
gigs.
I wear earplugs for any I attend now - but it isn't really my idea of
fun to
spend the evening with a couple of cheesy wotsits rammed in my earholes
while some egomaniac slakes his lust for power by forcing me to bow
down
before the awesome majesty of his "stack". The best solution I've found
to
the problem is simply to stay at home and to spend my 30 or 40 quid on
CDs
instead.
Not only can I can listen to these shiny little marvels without
damaging my
hearing, I also don't have to queue for hours, have some burly security
twat
order me around, have some arsehole blow cigarette smoke in my face all
night, have recreational drug abusers crash into me for sport or have
the
tallest bloke in the world come and stand right in front of me just as
the
show begins.
All this and I can stop and take a piss whenever I want. Heaven.
Rock & roll gigs - who needs 'em?
Mark (old fogey)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> But Costello's concert sound was inexcusable, especially since he had
his
own soundman
I know we´ve discussed it before, but I will keep wondering how on
earth EC
allows this to go on. What´s the point of distorting one of the
greatest
combos to the point where ears starts bleeding ? Does anyone in their
right
mind consider this to be RockAndRoll ? The sound at the two latest
Oslo
concerts have been utterly appalling. Several times I had to stick
fingers
in my ears to decipher what tunes they were playing, and I like to
think
that I know most of his songs. The ballads have usually been OK, but as
soon
as the band starts rocking, the soundman obviously falls into a deep
coma.
Sure, I can stay at home and listen to the CD, but hey, I used to enjoy
EC
concerts.....sans earplugs.
I´ve started questioning whether our boy is a cheapskate and that he´s
hired the cheapeast and worst soundman in the known universe.
RockAndRoll should be played LOUD, but this is beyond ridiculous.
Sverre
I think the sound at concerts depends as much on the venue as the soundman.
If you look back at some posts from 'our' reviews @ Lincoln Centre last summer, a few of us had problems hearing the new songs during the Imposters rocknroll concert. However, the presentation of 'Il Sogno' and the solo show that followed was wonderful. Same venue, same soundman (?), but two completely different levels of sound quality. Obviously Avery Fisher Hall is an acoustically wonderful place to hear a concert, as long as things are not over amplified.
If you look back at some posts from 'our' reviews @ Lincoln Centre last summer, a few of us had problems hearing the new songs during the Imposters rocknroll concert. However, the presentation of 'Il Sogno' and the solo show that followed was wonderful. Same venue, same soundman (?), but two completely different levels of sound quality. Obviously Avery Fisher Hall is an acoustically wonderful place to hear a concert, as long as things are not over amplified.
Why are we racing to be so old?
Misha tells listserv -
Maybe the amazing George Varga didn't notice the sound man (Elvis's)
pacing
the back of the place and talking directly and impassioned to a man of
4th and
B. I did....talk....fiddle with stuff....walk around....rinse,
repeat.
That man must have paced back and forth and fiddled with stuff 12
times.
Georgie is wrong. The sound wasn't great initially.....like maybe 15
minutesish.....but then it was just fine...and by just fine, I mean I
liked it.
I guess we see how long George's attention span is.
As for Tift Merritt being great and her sound being good. DISAGREE
TOTALLY.
I think I actually understood one word that woman said. This from a
woman
who can understand Johnny Lydon. One word. I mean it....one freakin
word.
No one around me understood a goddamned thing she sang. Just lots of
arms
and a tambourine. Her voice from her mic was unintelligible...unless
you were
sitting on Georgie's lap apparently. Wonder where he was, cause
everyone by
me was asking each other..."What is she singing?" What is that word?"
Incredibly frustrating.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave L adds -
I was at the show, and thought it was overall the best sound I've heard
at
4th & B. The venue is a barn, and even shows like John Hiatt solo, and
Bruce
Cockburn with a trio sounded bad....for I Want You, I had actually
moved
from my position near the stage to right near the soundboard, and was
really
shocked how clear it was...the soundman was panning the sound from left
speaker to right and back agian, and the effect was dazzling. I
actually
went to the soundman and shook his hand, telling him it was the best
sound
I('d ever heard at this venue. Just my .02.
Dave L
Maybe the amazing George Varga didn't notice the sound man (Elvis's)
pacing
the back of the place and talking directly and impassioned to a man of
4th and
B. I did....talk....fiddle with stuff....walk around....rinse,
repeat.
That man must have paced back and forth and fiddled with stuff 12
times.
Georgie is wrong. The sound wasn't great initially.....like maybe 15
minutesish.....but then it was just fine...and by just fine, I mean I
liked it.
I guess we see how long George's attention span is.
As for Tift Merritt being great and her sound being good. DISAGREE
TOTALLY.
I think I actually understood one word that woman said. This from a
woman
who can understand Johnny Lydon. One word. I mean it....one freakin
word.
No one around me understood a goddamned thing she sang. Just lots of
arms
and a tambourine. Her voice from her mic was unintelligible...unless
you were
sitting on Georgie's lap apparently. Wonder where he was, cause
everyone by
me was asking each other..."What is she singing?" What is that word?"
Incredibly frustrating.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave L adds -
I was at the show, and thought it was overall the best sound I've heard
at
4th & B. The venue is a barn, and even shows like John Hiatt solo, and
Bruce
Cockburn with a trio sounded bad....for I Want You, I had actually
moved
from my position near the stage to right near the soundboard, and was
really
shocked how clear it was...the soundman was panning the sound from left
speaker to right and back agian, and the effect was dazzling. I
actually
went to the soundman and shook his hand, telling him it was the best
sound
I('d ever heard at this venue. Just my .02.
Dave L
-
Monkey Girl
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:09 am
- Location: North Carolina
No one thought that was funny? (Boots..ha ha?)Monkey Girl wrote:Well, MichaelM ...if you can find those shiny silver boots you could charge admission.
Those are awesome!
Anyway, I was at the San Diego show. I thought the sound was good! And it got better as the night progressed. The base was heavy...but I like that. We were in front...so it's not as good up there...but I was impressed with the mix. And I would say it was better than Charlotte (venue was basically a gymnasium) and House of Blues Orlando (high expectations there) recently.
I do agree that a lot has to do with the venue.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I like it loud...
But I'm not a "real" critic either...(just a customer)
Of course, I was gettting beat up the second half of the SD show...so maybe I lost some sense...
-
Otis Westinghouse
- Posts: 8856
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:32 pm
- Location: The theatre of dreams
My perception is that the current tour is quieter than the last, this based on one gig of each, in the same venue, but finding the WIWC gig pretty loud and this from the very back of the gallery, with the recent one much less so from fourth row in the stalls. You want some power, but you also want some detail, and they seemed to get it just right this time. Maybe the North tour brought home the power of playing some songs quiter because they dictate it. Good mix of loud/quiet this time. Maybe as I get naturally deafer (only a few years off a hearing aid, I'm told, it's congenital), loudness bothers me less. My ears hurt the next day after The Fall, though. But it was worth it.
There's more to life than books, you know, but not much more
The San Diego Union Tribune has some letters responding to their article -
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... slets.html
Including this -
I read Varga's article with great interest, not merely because I'm a fellow music journalist who sees a lot of shows for work, but also because I actually write about sound engineers. Last year, I had a book come out called "Crank It Up," which explains what over 70 of the top mixers do to make bands sound great every night. Keeping in mind the insights that they gave me, I tried to analyze what happened to make the (Elvis) Costello show you wrote about such a disaster.
The most likely answer is that Costello's engineer was probably unfamiliar with the audio system on some level. Many venues with a 1,500 capacity have an in-house audio system that all artists are required to use. Costello is big enough that he could pull rank and use his own system, but if he wasn't touring with a system, or if he chose to use the house system instead, then the engineer would have to use equipment he's not used to, that he didn't set up, and of which he doesn't know its peculiarities. I suspect that's what happened.
As to whether a sound check would have saved the day, it's hard to know. Sound checks give a band time to warm up, they provide an opportunity to ensure all the cables and mics are working, and so on, but they don't provide the engineer with a super-accurate take on the room. A venue sounds one way when it's empty at 4 p.m. and wildly different when you jam thousands of sound-absorbing human bodies into it. An experienced engineer can make educated guesses during a sound check to get the sound relatively ready, but there's no way to know – or start fixing things – until a show starts.
(Don) Henley's comment about bands playing too loud is absolutely true. Many acts have their stage monitors so loud that if you turned off the PA, you'd still hear them deep into the venue. When that sound is mostly coming from a guitarist's 12 Marshalls, however, then the sound engineer has to spend more time trying to salvage the audio rather than mix something pleasurable for the audience. Most engineers these days know that loud isn't necessarily better.
Clive Young, senior editor,
Pro Sound News
New York City
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... slets.html
Including this -
I read Varga's article with great interest, not merely because I'm a fellow music journalist who sees a lot of shows for work, but also because I actually write about sound engineers. Last year, I had a book come out called "Crank It Up," which explains what over 70 of the top mixers do to make bands sound great every night. Keeping in mind the insights that they gave me, I tried to analyze what happened to make the (Elvis) Costello show you wrote about such a disaster.
The most likely answer is that Costello's engineer was probably unfamiliar with the audio system on some level. Many venues with a 1,500 capacity have an in-house audio system that all artists are required to use. Costello is big enough that he could pull rank and use his own system, but if he wasn't touring with a system, or if he chose to use the house system instead, then the engineer would have to use equipment he's not used to, that he didn't set up, and of which he doesn't know its peculiarities. I suspect that's what happened.
As to whether a sound check would have saved the day, it's hard to know. Sound checks give a band time to warm up, they provide an opportunity to ensure all the cables and mics are working, and so on, but they don't provide the engineer with a super-accurate take on the room. A venue sounds one way when it's empty at 4 p.m. and wildly different when you jam thousands of sound-absorbing human bodies into it. An experienced engineer can make educated guesses during a sound check to get the sound relatively ready, but there's no way to know – or start fixing things – until a show starts.
(Don) Henley's comment about bands playing too loud is absolutely true. Many acts have their stage monitors so loud that if you turned off the PA, you'd still hear them deep into the venue. When that sound is mostly coming from a guitarist's 12 Marshalls, however, then the sound engineer has to spend more time trying to salvage the audio rather than mix something pleasurable for the audience. Most engineers these days know that loud isn't necessarily better.
Clive Young, senior editor,
Pro Sound News
New York City
As a musician who has played hundreds of shows in dozens of very different venues over the past 15+ years, I'd like to respond to one of the above posts. Certain guitar amplifiers are powered with tubes. These tubes sound best when the amp is at a certain volume. If you try to play a Fender Twin or Reverb (the types of amps EC uses mostly) and turn the volume too low, the sound suffers terribly. My Fender Twin's manual tells you that anything below '4' is not good for sound. No one, I repeat, no one likes a gig to be too loud- not the musicians, not the crowd, and not the sound engineers. EC's sound in New Orleans was impeccable- I have no doubt the SD situation was caused from an unfamiliar system or a hall that doesn't have quality acoustic properties. 'Mark' from listserv above points out all the hassles of going to concerts, but for me, not experiencing rock and roll in a live setting is to not experience it at all.
-
Monkey Girl
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:09 am
- Location: North Carolina
-
martinfoyle
- Posts: 2502
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:24 pm
- Location: Dublin, Ireland
- Contact:
Jil posted this on the listserv.
Hey y'all, found some files of songs from that show where I was beat
upon by the two crazy chicks and molested by the third (I didn't talk
to her, she scared me too much...I think that was what she was trying
to do...too bad I couldn't enjoy it!)! Listen as Jill shouts "stop it
you're hurting me" and "get off me" and marvel in all of the splendor
of the inebriated crowd who can't shut up for "Scarlet Tide".
Apparently Elvis sang a quiet song so that they could have various and
sundry conversations and eventually a singalong.
If you are clever, play No Action right before Lipstick Vogue and hear
how the foul monkey yells and swears and spits when it doesn't get
it's way!! Hear the other monkey refuse to let go of the rail under
an armpit and dig her hand in! Hear the twats that almost turned an
innocuous concert goer into a wild, spitting monkey!!
Maybe I'm being unfair to the monkeys by calling these women primates.
I'm also doing a disservice by making fun of drug addiction (which is
no laughing matter, especially when crack or meth is involved), but
what else could explain this awful behaviour?
I *did* mention that I almost bit that one animal didn't I? I swear,
I understand how bar brawls might happen now...my adrenaline was
really pumping, but I didn't want to miss Elvis (or get kicked out or
arrested). These are pretty embarrassing, because the one stupid
bitch starts calling me ma'am! Do I really look that old? Geez, I
think I had better get some contacts and a dermapeel and makeover if
that's the case! Must be rote, as she *must* be in customer service
of some sort (not to slam all of you lovely service industry
folks...I'm selling tickets for a living right now, and we deserve
your respect). Please don't laugh at my feeble attempts to stop the
violence.
Listen to how the girl keeps slamming into me and then tries to
convince me she's only trying to save me from the violence, then she
calls me a bitch! She must've really wanted my spot. I think I'll
try that next GA show...come late and then slam into the people in the
front. Then try to convince them and the security guards that the
people in the front need to leave for their own safety. Then get mad
and start swearing at the people for not giving up their spots.
No Action (yeah right):
http://s29.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2O66 ... 4YCHUI5RY3
Lipstick Violence:
http://s29.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=26SP ... MOX710IPB7
Saddest Scarlet Tide you will ever hear:
http://s29.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=20V9 ... MRYXR4X0K5
Okay, so I have one more file with the hellbeast on it "I Want You"
otherwise known as "I want her to shut up"...I forgot how bad this
show was to experience, and how wonderful it would have been sans
chicks.
jill
http://s36.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Z05 ... RT17KPQ3PI
Last edited by martinfoyle on Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
LOL Otis! I'm just back after a few months because Martin said he posted some of the clips here. I didn't know there were more responses about the crazy ass San Diego show! Well, now there's some audio to go with it all! The punching girl may have been the one calling me Maam, or maybe it was the skinny blonde that I told off after the show.Otis Westinghouse wrote:Welcome to the newcomers.
My theory is it was zebrasnake going mental there. She reckoned there must have been at least one board member in the vicinity and decided to get her own back.
Whee! I hope it wasn't Zebrasnake
Where does she reside anyway?Jill
OMG! So that's what was happening over there! Man. That one woman that was grabbing my arm went to meet and greet, I just stood there seething, not wanting Elvis to see that I was in such a bad mood. I mean, I was just crying a few minutes beforeMonkey Girl wrote:I turned to the crazy closest to me and told her to go back where she came from and she called me a B---- and punched me in the stomach! My husband did not like that very much and he turned to her and she punched him in the face! He got a fat lip....and was bleeding! At that point he held her back as her arms swung all over the place trying to hit him some more! That's when security came over and thought my husband was to blame[/b]
Security (and I have them on tape) didn't offer to help at all. They suck. Sorry you had as bad of a night as I did.Jill
The folks over at Costello-l didn't have any fun comments on my clips so I'll post an additional one here. Hopefully it will bring Monkey Girl some memories (albeit unpleasant). IS this the girl who hit you (the woman on the recording singing in my ear)?
<<Okay, so I have one more file with the hellbeast on it "I Want You"
otherwise known as "I want her to shut up"...I forgot how bad this
show was to experience, and how wonderful it would have been sans
chicks.
jill
http://s36.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Z05 ... RT17KPQ3PI
>>
<<Okay, so I have one more file with the hellbeast on it "I Want You"
otherwise known as "I want her to shut up"...I forgot how bad this
show was to experience, and how wonderful it would have been sans
chicks.
jill
http://s36.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Z05 ... RT17KPQ3PI
>>
-
Who Shot Sam?
- Posts: 7097
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:05 pm
- Location: Somewhere in the distance
- Contact:
Who Shot Sam? Who are you? I met Kevin at Jersey and Matt at Pitsburgh...hrmm. Oh, also Jeff at both shows...I think. I'm sure I'd remember you if I had a name Isn't that woman awful? All through the show you can hear fights breaking out all over the place. It was awful. I'd have loved for Elvis to come to my rescue, but he probably thought I was just crazy when I was wincing from the awfulness (and pain) of the audience.
Jill
Isn't that woman awful? All through the show you can hear fights breaking out all over the place. It was awful. I'd have loved for Elvis to come to my rescue, but he probably thought I was just crazy when I was wincing from the awfulness (and pain) of the audience.Jill
-
Who Shot Sam?
- Posts: 7097
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:05 pm
- Location: Somewhere in the distance
- Contact:
I'm the Matt you speak of. How many shows did you do on the recent tour? I missed out on the Emmylou gigs - on vacation.jillbeast wrote:Who Shot Sam? Who are you? I met Kevin at Jersey and Matt at Pitsburgh...hrmm. Oh, also Jeff at both shows...I think. I'm sure I'd remember you if I had a name
Jill
Mother, Moose-Hunter, Maverick
Hey Matt!
I went to about five I guess...not a lot for me as you know That would be Oakland, San Diego, Los Angeles, Portland and Spokane. Elvis played me "She's Pulling Out the Pin" at my request in Spokane, actually I requested it in Portland. Too bad no one had any tapes rolling to capture it 
Truly a tragedy I tell ya!
Jill
That would be Oakland, San Diego, Los Angeles, Portland and Spokane. Elvis played me "She's Pulling Out the Pin" at my request in Spokane, actually I requested it in Portland. Too bad no one had any tapes rolling to capture it Truly a tragedy I tell ya!Jill