Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Pretty self-explanatory
sulky lad
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Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby sulky lad » Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:13 am

I normally try and post fairly jocular light posts but I need advice and help with a quandary I find myself on. It's been obvious that through the years Elvis has been tolerant if not approving of bootleggers or ROIO with the comment he made years back about pirates being thieves ( obvious paraphrase here )
. My problem relates to the fact that the recent Detour concert at the Philharmonic Hall in Liverpool was recorded professionally by Eagle Rock Entertainment and I know an audio recording of this exists. My thought is to advise the owner of said recording to hold off releasing it until the professional DVD is released so that it doesn't impact on any sales and as a sort of respect ( though I'm sure many could argue that recording the concerts isn't showing much respect at all . At Steve's concert in Tubingen, he seemed pleased when he discovered an audience recording had been made but I'm not sure Elvis would feel the shame way. I don't want to incur the wrath of Elvis or his legal and management teams on either this board or anyone who may have made recordings individually but any thoughts and/ or professional legal guidance would be appreciated , don't know if Mike the Lawyer would have thoughts for example . I'm really anxious not to ruin the whole tolerance that recordist seem to be given but I'm also aware of the messages this board has received about previous video recordings and the furrow over the Pay Per View concert in Japan ( by the way has anyone seen this ?)

stricttime81
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby stricttime81 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:50 am

I'm fairly certain that if the show was professionally recorded it was done with the knowledge and approval of Elvis and his people. For what purpose remains to be seen, but unless Elvis decides to officially release it Eagle Rock would have no authority to do so on its own. If Elvis decides not to release it, it will never see the light of day unless it is leaked somehow.

If you're saying that someone illegally obtained a copy of Eagle Rock's recording, other than appealing to the that person morally not to release it, I'm not sure what else you can do other than report the person to Elvis's management.
AKA: Mike the Lawyer

sulky lad
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby sulky lad » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:16 am

The recording that exists is just an audience recording and nothing to do with Eagle Rock but The recordist doesn't want to incur the wrath of Elvis and/or Eagle Rock but putting an audio version of the show out into the universe !
Thanks for your advice and thoughts Mike, appreciated !

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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby funkygibbon666 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:05 am

(Brother Can You Spare A) DIME usually err on the side of caution in these matters. I was informed after offering to post a John Cale Tribute To Nico at the RFH that I taped that 'the artist's people' had asked for the tape already uploaded to be removed as it was going to be officially released.

AFAIK it has never surfaced despite Mr Cale getting different artists to perform it in New York

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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby The imposter » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:19 am

Sulky, you refer to an AUDIO audience recording whereas the Eagle Rock Entertainment is a VIDEO recording as far as I’m aware. That distinction alone would make it different enough in my opinion.

Also, if the bootleg recording is circulated AFTER the official release I think it would be more likely to annoy the lawyers and be removed.

Lots of recordings have been circulated before rightly being taken down when the official release becomes available. I collected most of the “Spectacle” episodes in this way before going out to buy the official releases. The show was buried in the TV schedules and I wouldn't have seen them otherwise..but I digress.

Most people on this forum support the artist by buying official products and merchandise and attending concerts. Possessing an extra bootleg audio recording I doubt would prevent them from buying the official DVD release. Of course there are people who would choose not to buy anything and rip official recordings but I fail to see how you could stop this as anything that is released, even official product eventually is circulated.

Incidentally I have a copy of the Japanese DVD x2 you refer to. I can’t remember which torrent site I used, but remember successfully hunting it down.. I’m also happy to trade any of the bootlegs I possess. Biggest cardinal sin is attempting to sell bootleg material on e-bay or other such sites, which I regard as completely out of order. The RAH DVDs from June 2013 would be a case in point. I have personal reasons for wanting a copy of this but I have resisted the temptation to purchase this material from a known bootlegger.

I will buy any official DVD of the Liverpool concert that is released and the first thing I will do is rip the audio for my own amusement :)

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krm
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby krm » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:06 pm

Those things have a tendency to leak out anyway. A commercial release would be more damaged by means of the ripping of it and offered on torrentsites than an audience audio recording.

I just dug out the Tokyo spinning wheel DVD and ...wow! It is so good!

MOJO
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby MOJO » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:21 pm

Follow your initials thoughts and tell your friend not to post it.

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Top balcony
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby Top balcony » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:39 pm

There is much to play for here. I think we're all very grateful for EC's tolerance of audience recordings and I think the EC fanbase should be seen to fully support his legitimate desire to safeguard his income. As such I would strongly recommend the amateur recorder not to torrent their souvenir and keep it, as the phrase goes, "for personal use only".

Until the DVD comes out - and the sooner the better - we've got plenty of youtube excerpts to whet our appetites at the moment.

I agree with MOJO.

Colin Top Balcony

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docinwestchester
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby docinwestchester » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:39 pm

From DIME's wiki:

http://wiki.dimeadozen.org/index.php/Di ... d_Torrents

"No torrent, torrent description, comment, or comment attachment may distribute any official material. That term includes:
...Upcoming official releases announced by the artist or the label"

The audience audio recording from Philharmonic Hall in Liverpool is DIME-legal until the release of the DVD is officially announced. Once announced, it will be taken down. If never announced or released, it will stay up on their tracker until no longer active.

You can probably guess where I stand on this matter...

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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby erey » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:56 pm

Given the content of the performance and the timing of the recording, I'd say the pro-shot footage of this show is almost surely going to be used for a tie-in with the memoir, if it gets released at all. The memoir is coming out in October, so why not sit on the fan audio recording until then. If there's no sign of an official release or only a small amount of the footage gets used, then torrent away.

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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby The imposter » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:35 pm

docinwestchester wrote:
You can probably guess where I stand on this matter...


Yes, and much appreciated are the Wiltern Theatre recordings from 2011. Particularly the tracks unavailable on the official release we were advised by the artist NOT to buy ;)

charliestumpy
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby charliestumpy » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:13 am

Choose what is right for the world/you now-in the future ...

I advise buying-enjoying what is LEGALLY available, downloading from me or Soulseek or Dime or YouTube or wotever what is not yet ...

Someone who has been watching-hearing-buying-sharing aptly DPAM since 70s.

Other people not in USA (stuff Japan 6-0 on Monday morning PLEASE...) might want to shoot me/everyone (45).
'Sometimes via the senses, mostly in the mind (or pocket)'.

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verbal gymnastics
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby verbal gymnastics » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:54 am

We don't know yet if the DVD will be released.

There's no harm in sitting on it until it becomes clear whether or not there will be an official release. If so then don't make the recording available. If not then it can be made available.

There's no time limit on making the audience recording available.
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sulky lad
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby sulky lad » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:39 am

:D good advice from a wise man, thanks

erey
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby erey » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:45 am

sulky lad wrote::D good advice from a wise man, thanks


So what am I, chopped liver? :wink:

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Top balcony
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby Top balcony » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:55 am

eray

don't worry, I'm pretty sure the "wise" bit was sarcasm!

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sulky lad
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby sulky lad » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:27 pm

No one ever gives me the respect I think I deserve :shock: however all your opinions are equally valued ( if only on this case)!

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krm
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Re: Bootlegs and a moral dilemma

Postby krm » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:08 am

verbal gymnastics wrote:We don't know yet if the DVD will be released.

There's no harm in sitting on it until it becomes clear whether or not there will be an official release. If so then don't make the recording available. If not then it can be made available.

There's no time limit on making the audience recording available.



This makes sense. I just had a look at the setlist and there is nothing there that is not to be found elsewhere. Keep it in the vaults for a while.


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