Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

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spooky girlfriend
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Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby spooky girlfriend » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:14 pm

Due to a letter we received from an attorney, we have been ordered to delete all posts by the username Stewy. We have no choice in this matter. This is just to let you know.

Just to note, this was a DCMA takedown notice and we do NOT condone any distribution of copyrighted material. So please do not post links.

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby sweetest punch » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:01 pm

spooky girlfriend wrote:Due to a letter we received from an attorney, we have been ordered to delete all posts by the username Stewy. We have no choice in this matter. This is just to let you know.

Just to note, this was a DCMA takedown notice and we do NOT condone any distribution of copyrighted material. So please do not post links.

What/who is DCMA? I googled it, but nothing usefull came up.
So... Stewy, wasn't that the guy who reacted "agressive" at the person who told him that he was doing illegal things? :wink:
Since you put me down, it seems i've been very gloomy. You may laugh but pretty girls look right through me.

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby spooky girlfriend » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:38 pm

Digital Millennium Copyright Act

Here is an excerpt from the letter we received from EC's UK attorney:

Please accept this letter as a notice served pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and in
accordance with UK and EC law, requiring you to take down links to infringing content and a notice
immediately to take down defamatory content for which you will otherwise be responsible as publisher. It is
our firm view that under all relevant legislation you must act within 24 hours of receipt by email of this noticeor risk invalidating any protections against liability from which you might otherwise benefit under safe
harbour provisions of the relevant applicable law. If necessary we will not hesitate to join your organisation
to any future proceedings should you fail to comply with this notice in good time.

Their main gripe was with Stewy and his piracy issues, but since he was making them public on our site, then we were also liable.

I believe Doc and I have deleted all the necessary info they asked us to.

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby pophead2k » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:46 pm

I'm glad for one. Nothing personal at all against Stewy, but using as your justification the fact that EC is 'rich' or that it is a ripoff to expect 'real fans' to pay for archived material was very, very weak. No one must buy anything that EC or any other artist puts out. Sorry you had the hassle.

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby spooky girlfriend » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:26 pm

Thanks, guys. We're not blaming anyone else here at all. The really bad thing is that we didn't notice the original letter from them for a few days and they thought we were intentionally ignoring it. I've just had some bumps in the road in my recovery and haven't been as on top of things as usual.

We took on this site and all the responsibilities that come with it because we love EC's music.

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby StrictTime » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:04 pm

pophead2k wrote:I'm glad for one. Nothing personal at all against Stewy, but using as your justification the fact that EC is 'rich' or that it is a ripoff to expect 'real fans' to pay for archived material was very, very weak. No one must buy anything that EC or any other artist puts out. Sorry you had the hassle.


Agreed. Thanks for taking care of it, Spookies. Have a smiley for your trouble. :D
Why don't you write about it in your blag?

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby BlueChair » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:21 pm

Poor fella. Stewy struck me as a bit naive in terms of what he was doing... seems the powers that be are trying to make his online life a living hell. But you guys are taking the right precautions... we don't want this place to get shut down as a result of his poor choices
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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby spooky girlfriend » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:50 pm

Well, Doc exchanged email with the attorneys and they appear to be pleased with our actions and haven't asked for anything else from us. Hopefully this will be the end of this. But you guys be our eyes and ears. If you see anything on the site that looks like it could get us in trouble, please let us know. :-)

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby wardo68 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:41 pm

As an occiasional poster (but constant reader) here, I have to admit I've taken a lot of the Spooky efforts for granted. I've become accustomed to this forum as a constant entity, and I can't imagine where I'd get my fix without it. I'll try to do more of my part to help keep it afloat.

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby sweetest punch » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:14 pm

wardo68 wrote:As an occiasional poster (but constant reader) here, I have to admit I've taken a lot of the Spooky efforts for granted. I've become accustomed to this forum as a constant entity, and I can't imagine where I'd get my fix without it. I'll try to do more of my part to help keep it afloat.

We should all support the Spookies by donating/subscribing through Paypal (see above).
Since you put me down, it seems i've been very gloomy. You may laugh but pretty girls look right through me.

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby Otis Westinghouse » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:42 am

Continued respect to the Spookies for all their hard work.

Shame about Stewy, he's a lovely, kind-hearted witty soul. God knows there are bigger things to worry about than a few links to some relatively obscure bonus tracks and far bigger fish to fry in the illegal downloading world.
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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby DrSpooky » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:54 am

Sigh...we have received direct correspondence today from attorneys of Elvis Costello regarding our fan forum and the mention of copyright infringement material. We apologize for the lack of continuity in some of the threads due to deleted posts, but we have no choice.

One user in particular has been mentioned by the attorneys who regularly posts links to recordings of Elvis’ performances which have been made unlawfully. We have been given specific posts to remove, as well as warnings of what will happen if this does not occur within a matter of days. Our site prohibits the posting of material that violates the law of any country, and we simply cannot allow members to breach those terms. Whatever contact you have or information you share with anyone apart from public posts on the fan forum is not our concern. What *is* our concern is that we fund this site mostly out of pocket with a few modest monthly pledges and random infrequent donations from others. We cannot risk inflicting expensive legal action upon ourselves.

We ask that, in the future, you please refrain from publicly posting links to sites which contain the type of material which we have been warned about. Anyone who participates in the fan forum knows the name of those sites. Since obtaining the site, our lives have grown a bit more complex than they used to be and, consequently, we do not post very often as members. But know that it is our pleasure to continue hosting the site for as long as we are able.

Rules are rules, and we have to follow them. If we do, then everyone else here must as well. Enjoy the site, enjoy the camaraderie that it brings, just please don't cause us grief from attorneys. :)

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby Otis Westinghouse » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:25 pm

Thanks, Doc. Sorry to hear about this.

I guess you need to be a bit cagey about details, but I'm struggling to work out what site of stuff was being cited. Can't you be more explicit? After all, that will help avoid such things. At first I thought it was maybe bootlegs on dimeadozen, as there are always many refs to those, but a quick search reveals that not to be the case (unless it's just very selective). Then I thought maybe it was sites like Mediafire, but no, plenty of refs to those still can be found. Could you spell out a bit more what exactly is the type of stuff. Or is it just certain dimeadozen links that have been singled out? A bit odd if so. And a search for Elvis there reveals plenty of Elvis boots in existence.

Of course everyone needs to toe the line, but I find it very depressing when attorneys get exercised over perfectly harmless bootlegs being shared. I can see the point if people are selling them, but in the world of modern lossless, costless, harmless bootleg streaming, it's only likely impact is to further sales of the official stuff, not take from it, and if Dime is under attack, their wonderful moral stance on weeding out any commercially available items that get posted and deleting them is an exemplary example of non-violation and respect for copyrighted commercial IP.

Thanks for keeping this place going. It provides a great service in homage to Elvis. He and all people connected with any aspects of him in a professional way should be deeply grateful for such things.
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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby DrSpooky » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:40 pm

Otis Westinghouse wrote:Could you spell out a bit more what exactly is the type of stuff. Or is it just certain dimeadozen links that have been singled out? A bit odd if so. And a search for Elvis there reveals plenty of Elvis boots in existence.

Of course everyone needs to toe the line, but I find it very depressing when attorneys get exercised over perfectly harmless bootlegs being shared. I can see the point if people are selling them, but in the world of modern lossless, costless, harmless bootleg streaming, it's only likely impact is to further sales of the official stuff, not take from it, and if Dime is under attack, their wonderful moral stance on weeding out any commercially available items that get posted and deleting them is an exemplary example of non-violation and respect for copyrighted commercial IP.

Thanks for keeping this place going. It provides a great service in homage to Elvis. He and all people connected with any aspects of him in a professional way should be deeply grateful for such things.


First, let me say that no offense was intended to the forum member who did this. I think it was an honest mistake. I am a computer nerd and have a tendency to be blunt. Spooky reminds me that my bluntness often is abrasive. But anytime I see legal notice, I want to address the situation quickly.

Based on various conversations with forum members, our best guess is that one of the threads had a link to a Japanese Pay Per View concert. That would definitely cross the line of distributing commercially available material. Spooky also spotted a reference to a Bluray and I honestly don't remember what it was. But if there was a link to something ripped from a Bluray, it was likely commercially available material in some part of the world. Beyond that, I honestly don't have a clue.

We were given a list of six specific threads with links to material in question. The first is the PPV show as I understand. In case it helps the community avoid future incidents, this is the list.

1) Elvis Costello & The Imposters Tokyo Japan December 13th 2103.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10104&start=25

2) Elvis Costello & The Roots New York Brooklyn Bowl September 16th 2013. Audio & Video
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9957&start=125#p7710772

3) Elvis Costello Benefit show supporting The Who February 28th 2013. HD Video
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9730&start=50

4) Elvis Costello & The Imposters Osaka Japan 2013. Audio only.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10105

5) Elvis Costello Washington DC 22nd November 2013. Audio.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10062&start=25

6) Elvis Costello Port Chester New York 12th November 2013. Audio & Video.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10056

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby Otis Westinghouse » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:16 am

Thanks. Weirdly selective.
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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby Ymaginatif » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:10 am

Costello lawyers are probably Prince lawyers fans too ... :?
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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby DrSpooky » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:58 am

Ymaginatif wrote:Costello lawyers are probably Prince lawyers fans too ... :?


I am not enough of Prince fan to get the joke. Please enlighten me. :)

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby Ymaginatif » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:17 am

DrSpooky wrote:
Ymaginatif wrote:Costello lawyers are probably Prince lawyers fans too ... :?


I am not enough of Prince fan to get the joke. Please enlighten me. :)


Sorry, it was in the national news, so I thought it might be known:

Prince ('s lawyers) sued 11 fan-sites around the world for 1 million dollar each because they provided bootleg material. They all closed at the drop of a hat. A few days ago he stopped the cases (and dropped charges), but it rattled the chains quite a bit. Very quiet now around Prince sites ...

And, with Elvis Costello being a Prince fan, I thought it might have given him ideas ...
(more as a joke than a real conviction, that is)
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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby DrSpooky » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:32 am

Ymaginatif wrote:Prince ('s lawyers) sued 11 fan-sites around the world for 1 million dollar each because they provided bootleg material. They all closed at the drop of a hat. A few days ago he stopped the cases (and dropped charges), but it rattled the chains quite a bit. Very quiet now around Prince sites ...


Has Prince even made a million dollars off any recent release? Doesn't he have to show actual damages? LOL

I know.. you can sue for anything.

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby Ymaginatif » Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:35 am

DrSpooky wrote:
Ymaginatif wrote:Prince ('s lawyers) sued 11 fan-sites around the world for 1 million dollar each because they provided bootleg material. They all closed at the drop of a hat. A few days ago he stopped the cases (and dropped charges), but it rattled the chains quite a bit. Very quiet now around Prince sites ...


Has Prince even made a million dollars off any recent release? Doesn't he have to show actual damages? LOL

I know.. you can sue for anything.


It is outrageous ...

What I particularly don't like is the sable-rattling effect or the downright bullying of cease and desist letters. Half if not more have no legal leg to stand on, but they create an atmosphere of fear, litigation and control ... brr.

E.g. Soundcloud shut my account an kicked me out because I had two covers of me playing Prince songs on there. Listened to by a dozen or so friends. Entirely legal. But soundcloud takes no risks ...

I sincerely hope that this site will be spared this kind of bullying practices.
More about me (including some Elvis Costello covers): http://ymaginatifandmusic.blogspot.com/

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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby sweetest punch » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:00 am

DrSpooky wrote:
Otis Westinghouse wrote:Could you spell out a bit more what exactly is the type of stuff. Or is it just certain dimeadozen links that have been singled out? A bit odd if so. And a search for Elvis there reveals plenty of Elvis boots in existence.

Of course everyone needs to toe the line, but I find it very depressing when attorneys get exercised over perfectly harmless bootlegs being shared. I can see the point if people are selling them, but in the world of modern lossless, costless, harmless bootleg streaming, it's only likely impact is to further sales of the official stuff, not take from it, and if Dime is under attack, their wonderful moral stance on weeding out any commercially available items that get posted and deleting them is an exemplary example of non-violation and respect for copyrighted commercial IP.

Thanks for keeping this place going. It provides a great service in homage to Elvis. He and all people connected with any aspects of him in a professional way should be deeply grateful for such things.


First, let me say that no offense was intended to the forum member who did this. I think it was an honest mistake. I am a computer nerd and have a tendency to be blunt. Spooky reminds me that my bluntness often is abrasive. But anytime I see legal notice, I want to address the situation quickly.

Based on various conversations with forum members, our best guess is that one of the threads had a link to a Japanese Pay Per View concert. That would definitely cross the line of distributing commercially available material. Spooky also spotted a reference to a Bluray and I honestly don't remember what it was. But if there was a link to something ripped from a Bluray, it was likely commercially available material in some part of the world. Beyond that, I honestly don't have a clue.

We were given a list of six specific threads with links to material in question. The first is the PPV show as I understand. In case it helps the community avoid future incidents, this is the list.

1) Elvis Costello & The Imposters Tokyo Japan December 13th 2103.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10104&start=25

2) Elvis Costello & The Roots New York Brooklyn Bowl September 16th 2013. Audio & Video
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9957&start=125#p7710772

3) Elvis Costello Benefit show supporting The Who February 28th 2013. HD Video
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9730&start=50

4) Elvis Costello & The Imposters Osaka Japan 2013. Audio only.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10105

5) Elvis Costello Washington DC 22nd November 2013. Audio.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10062&start=25

6) Elvis Costello Port Chester New York 12th November 2013. Audio & Video.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10056


Maybe they have a problem with the high quality video recordings and with the forum member who posts links to these recordings?
Anyway, I would suggest that we stop posting links to Dime recordings. Fans who are interested in these recordings could find these easily by browsing Dime.
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Re: Letter from Attorney and Deletion of Posts

Postby Otis Westinghouse » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:27 am

That is true, an alert is enough for people to go and find it. Presumably no-one can be hauled over coals for referring to something being uploaded elsewhere?! Presumably Dimeadozen are potentially in hot water, though they've just celebrated their 10th anniversary, have 115k active peers, and as I say above, do a fine job in taking a principled approach to filesharing of non-commercially available material, which in turn will have a direct benefit on the flagging fortunes of the record companies. In adjusting to the new business models of today, a little less shortsightedness in attitude might help sustain the old timers.
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